MK forum

I would like to respond to the question of why the armours moved to natal from down south. They moved because their whole ministry has to making films of the bible stories. Well up north was the perfect scenery for their filming and they found the perfect fazenda to buy so that they could film.

Wise, thank you for your courage. I'm so sorry for what your family has gone through and is going through. I do have a question though. If this abuser abused his own nieces, then would he abuse his own daughters or granddaughters?
Thank you for being such a wonderful dorm mom.

Cheeky: re-abusing his own daughters and granddaughters: I thought of that the first time I read about him abusing his nieces. Maybe only Cynthia knows the answer to that question. We can certainly hope it would not be true!!

Back to Cynthia's letter. Something kept niggling at me about that letter and I finally realized it was that *she* shared details of the abuse against her cousins.

I am - flabbergasted (really, I can't even think of a word here) - that she and her family (because I'm pretty sure her parents, even though she is a grown adult, and family all approved this letter to be posted) shared these 'details' like she did. I'm thinking about how the abused might feel to have the details thrown all over cyberspace by someone.

It's not that I do not think the abuse should be brought to light. I do. But it seems almost audacious of her to print and post something like this in such detail without permission from the abused. There are ways to "confess" your parent abused someone without 1) giving the public at large all the gory details and 2) still maintain respect for the abused.

That her father most likely had a hand in at least knowing she posted this and sent it out to people causes *me* to feel like it is a continuation of the abuse. It's bad enough it was minimized so in the letter. Worse, in my opinion, to share these details without asking the permission of the abused.

My basis for this is: My daughter. When she was not quite 12 and we had the incident at our church that I've mentioned before, she did NOT want me to share all the details with everyone. Even though she had not been abused, it was still difficult for her to hear that her friend had been molested, that she (my daughter) had to give reports to CPS and the State Police, etc. For her, it felt like she was reliving it again and again.

I realize everyone handles things differently. But from my viewpoint, that has been bothering me for a while and I couldn't quite put my thumb on it until last night.

This morning in church our pastor asked us two questions: If God could answer just one of your prayers, what would it be? And if yo could pray for just one person, whom would it be?
It wasn't hard for me to answer this. My one prayer request would be for reconciliation within our extended family. My one person I would pray for is Steve-for complete healing in his life, knowing that a complete healing in his life would trickle down and have positive effects on our entire extended family.
Mrs.M-for sure the victims should have been asked before such a letter had gone out. Again, I think their purpose in writing it was to minimize the abuse and they thought the details were very minimal. There really isn't any excuse for it.
Cheeky-I have heard that abusers follow a pattern with their abuse even as far as those they abuse, whether it's their own kids, others in the family, or others outside the family. Up until now I had thought Steve's pattern was only his nieces but I'm not so sure anymore. Both of his daughters have claimed they were never abused. It's possible, but it's also possible that having been raised in that home, there was abuse going on but they didn't even realize it was abuse. It's hard to think that with how addictive this was to Steve that he wouldn't abuse his own daughters. I guess if there were enough little girls around other than his daughters, he might not have felt the need to abuse them also.

to Cheeky - You are right in saying that the Armours moved to Natal because of the filming of Bible stories.
Regarding the patterns of the victims, it is hard to say for sure. It has been researched that those who molest children and do not get appropriate help in the addiction, often are "dormant" for years and then in later years begin to molest children again. This is one of our fears. I would tend to think, that the pattern would be more likely to molest the children of others, perhaps other relatives. Rather than the children of his own children, perhaps the children of his nieces or nephews if they were near by.
Our hope and desire of course is that this never comes to pass. But, unless and until he has serious counseling and accountability there will always be a very real fear on our part. And after counseling, accountability is absolutely necessary. The rate of recovery for this addiction is pretty close to zero if one excludes God's grace and healing power. We want to trust HIM for that recovery, but the abuser must be willing and those closest to him, willing for him to do counseling.
Because of the way the whole family has been drawn into this, the whole family really needs help in this process of healing and recovery.

I just posted this on the forum about forgiveness, but I think it is relevant here as well. I hope you all don't mind the repetition.

A very good book on forgiveness that has helped me a lot in sorting out what it is is: Robert D. Enright, Ph.D., [i]Forgiveness is a Choice[/i]; A step-by-step process for resolving anger and restoring hope. American Psychological Association, 2001.

In Chapter 2 the author defines forgiveness and answers questions about it. He says forgiveness is not: 1) condoning or excusing 2) forgetting 3) justifying 4) calming down 5) pseudo-forgiving . He also states that forgiveness is related to but different from reconciliation. He then answers questions one of them being: Must I choose between mercy and justice? He answers that there are tensions here and says, "A man who has been sexually molested as a child may decide to forgive the man who molested him and still decide to testify against him to protect other children. To say 'I have forgiven' and then allow another child to suffer would be to deny the rights of future victims" (p. 32).

Another question: Must the forgiver trust the offender? "The simple answer is no. ..On the contrary forgiving is one of the best ways to stop a pattern of repeated injury...Forgiveness is free; trust must be earned. Sometimes trust is never justified. For example, a chronic pedophile should not be trusted with the care of children" (p. 38 + 39).

I recommend this book.

@mkbahiana

O Bahiana,

I've been thinking about you for days. Thank you for writing. I can attest to what you've written. "Palpable fear," constant vigilence, etc. It's like you were telling our story over again, only you all had it down to routine by that time. I must have been in the "girl's dorm" when you started in the "little dorm."
I'm so sorry. So, so sorry.

If I remember right, when I was in 5th grade, my then roommate and I were seriously considering going to "the board" about Frank Parker. I think we talked ourselves out of it because we figured they wouldn't listen, and we'd just end up getting into more trouble than what we started with. Again, if I remember right, the reasoning included Memories'previous fruitless attempt. If we did, it didn't work, at least, then. I so admire the courage of Memories.

I was afraid to tell my parents b/c I was afraid I'd get into trouble when they left. Contingencies, I still think in webs of contingencies... (And BTW actually, my mom and dad did speak up one time too many and got fired.)

Nobody seemed to think any of it was unusual. After all, he was a dorm "dad" right? As a kid, I didn't know any better - the adults must think this is normal. It must be normal. But it feels so wrong, so ugly, so shameful.

And nothing changed, and you had to go through much the same thing. That's so unfair.

Its a high cost. No child should have to deal with that.

As to the "Salvation" bit - my first thoughts included (not to defend my thoughts), "Oh, how convenient." He was a master manipulator. One can hope...

I hope there is real change in NTM. I hope this isn't just more manipulation.

I have to see it over the long haul. Maybe I'm jaded, cynical, skeptical...not actually sure. Maybe its broken trust. My hope is sincere but salty and very guarded.

I sit here at my computer not knowing where to start. I have been silent too long. I have allowed others to speak but have remained silent. I have alot to say and am alittle worried that once started it will be hard to stop.

The emotions are hard to put a finger on. Anger, unbelief, distrust, sick in my gut. I think the one thing that I can put my finger on for now is that I'm incredibly proud of my sis. I have the privilege of being one of Survivor's brothers. (Yeah... so I'm not that great at the whole anonymous thing. I can barely spell it for cryin out loud!)

I had seen the beginning of this thread a few weeks ago but didn't take the time to read it all. I wanted to cry, to destroy something, to vent, to go for a long run, but most of all to give my two sisters a hug. Not just Survivor, but both my sisters. I feel like I haven't been there for either of you. I'm sorry for my ignorance. I'm sorry that I haven't bothered to really hear you out, to validate and acknowledge what you both have been through. I'm sorry I have ignored your pain. I want you both to know that I love you both more than I know how to show, that I support you both in who you are and are becoming. That I am so proud of each of you and the journey that you have been on, and the amazing women that you have both become. You are both a testament of grace, of love, and of forgiveness. You have chosen to not allow your scar to define you but have not ignored that it is a part of your story. I am proud to be your brother.

The rest of my emotions need a little sorting through before throwing them up for the world to see.