MK forum

Andy

Do me a favor and check your mail box on this site.

for G2 + MKs,

I'm not sure I follow your question completely, but I am pretty certain that the law makes clear what *is* child abuse and what is *not* child abuse.

I can't remember the Penners' case exactly, but it seems I remember they were particularly cruel??

Just to clarify what you might mean: Do you mean cases of abuse that were not sexual abuse would constitute borderline?

Just trying to understand what you are saying.

HD, as nicely as it can be said: Please see Gene Long's post on the Florida Statute of Limitations thread referring to the "New" and the "New New" NTM, post 1997. Maybe it's time for you to start playing the game, "Who Do You Trust?"

(Wasn't there a game show with that name? Sounds familiar, but never saw it. Been on the field too long.)

It is getting wearisome to keep saying that Larry is not stopping the abuses that are STILL going on in NTM. Do you think those people are free to tell their stories? See Elijah III's post on Dear Larry Brown.... THAT kind of treatment is not a thing of the past. How far in the past is 4 years ago? What about last summer? What about right now? What about worse kinds of abuse than spiritual and emotional and physical that is not sexual?

William Wallace: There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it.

Great quote from the movie, Braveheart. Yea, yea, yea, the movie was bloody . . .so was The Patriot, but I came out of that movie ready to charge Hell itself. Couldn't quite find the directions though and the GPS directions didn't go beyond the South Pole. Oh well . . .in any event. My point reaffirms what someone once posted on here, a paradigm shift. "The Misson" exists for the sake of the gospel, the nurturing and protecting of its missionaries (including the kids!), and the discipling, training and equipping of new believers. NTM does not exist to confer titles upon those who hold position, or the sweep under the rug sin within the camp.

We men (and all those who desire to join) march to gain freedom from our collectively damaged psyche, our shattered souls, and while we know that true freedom comes from The One and True Healer, we have to partner with the Spirit, face the demons of damage, doubt and despair. We, like the friends who bore the paralytic man, must break through the roof and obstacles to lower the injured ones towards the Healer and healing.

So, men, I charge you today! Come alongside your loved ones! Come alongside your damaged, broken sisters in Christ! Love well. Love purely. Hate sin. Stand up at the Gate. Pursue Justice. Be a Phineas. Be a Joshua. Be a Caleb. Be a Christ-follower!!!

If anyone wants to join, meet at the quadra after second-half volleyball. No indulgences for sale. Only warriors of the Living God need apply!!!!!

Will you be there?

I’m going to be away from my computer for several days, but I want to make a couple of comments before I leave. Again, I apologize for the long post.

Philosophical disclaimer: I am a recovering neo-fundamentalist. I have been digging out from under that crap for three decades. Neo-fundamentalism has its roots in the anti-intellectualism of the Great Awakenings. It was an attempt at doctrinal clarity that went crazy in a very sinister way in the 60’s- late 80’s and still exists in American “Christianity.” It was the worldview that set the stage for evil like that which took place in Fanda and Via and all over NTM. Neo-fundamentalism is, as many of you know from sad experience, characterized by well intentioned “Phariseeism,” power & control, mudslinging, hatefulness …attributes that are the opposite of true Christianity. Neo-fundamentalism, I believe, helped push the west away from biblical Christianity. “If that is what Christians are like, I want no part of it” was and is the response of too many people. Nothing scarier than well intentioned, powerful, but morally skewed people.
My comments below contain a measure of optimism regarding NTM leaders. The optimism is not because they are now the “Ronald Reagans” of the new and improved NTM. I’m optimistic because I know without a doubt NTM US leaders have repudiated neo-fundamentalism as evil and destructive. The right foundations (justice, mercy and humility) are in place I believe. We fought and resisted, and finally defeated neo-fundamentalism as a world view in NTM, only to find its chickens coming home to roost right on our heads. And they are crapping all over us. Digging out of neo-fundamentalism has been a process, not an instant conversion. We are flawed, we are all on an excruciating journey, but God is breaking our hearts and changing us.

@ OT My post was not an act of bravery… like I was rising up against NTM leaders at great risk to myself. I have no doubt they would set their hands to what I have said.

I can never fully understand the depth of your pain, or that of your sister or your friends. I pray my words don’t add to that pain. You may be like a buzzing bee, but without bees doing their thing, our planet would be a wasteland. Don’t quit or give up. I think you and I agree on the nature and extent of the evil committed by evil men in NTM. I’m on the inside and as I grieve over the pain we have caused, I’m confident that true change was beginning to take root in NTM since 1998, when NTM members through a worldwide survey, sent a stinging rebuke to our leaders over what was essentially neo-fundamentalism. It was a baby step, but a step nonetheless. The GRACE report was major kick in the butt, pushing us toward truth. We have not arrived, but like I said, we have repudiated the worldview that allowed us to choose death over life.

@Gene I’m committed to hang in there with NTM for several reasons, and these are the main ones:

NTM must exist long enough to shine the bright light (OT: halogen with new Duracell ultra batteries) of truth on the sins of the past. If all of us walk away right now, who will do that? I’d rather be anywhere than in NTM right now, as would many of my peers. Wading through eyeball deep sin and gut wrenching hurt is not my favorite pastime. Being associated with child abusers is not something I dreamt of doing when I was a kid. My remaining years of ministry in NTM will likely be shadowed by the abuse of our MK’s, but if we continue moving toward truth, I’m willing to hang in there.
I’m hopeful NTM’s US leaders are committed to doing what is right. I don’t think that way because they are leaders in NTM, but because I see them thinking clearly and walking in humility… things, sadly, we were not known for.

@ Kari, OT and Gene, Thanks for your encouraging words.

@Kari: I’m not trying to plant an NTM 5th column on your blog. Tell me to cool it and I’ll shut up.

@ Andy: I wish more were like you. Speaking truth, acknowledging fault, yet being willing to deal with the boatload of crap flying in your face. Keep talking, speaking, and, who knows, being a God-fearing conduit of our pain to those who should know.

Thanks for posting.

Long live the 5th Column...John May lives....just kidding Andy (this is a reference to "V" the show for those that didn't follow Andy's earlier comment). Its encouraging that NTM USA has stepped away from NEO Fundamentalism from your perspective, so change is possible!

Andy - Your posts are most encouraging. I, for one, salute you and thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Thank you for answering, HD.
These forums are for the purpose of expressing our views. We respect the right of all to do that. We want to be as kind as possible in spite of the emotions that come into play.
That said, this involves REAL LIFE being lived out in ways some of us never expected to see or experience. We have suffered at the hands of those who were supposed to be our leaders and shepherds. Besides huge lacks in those areas, they are also SILENT when they don't like what's going on.
We have learned on these forums that abusers can look very pleasant to others when they want to. May the Lord help us all to persevere until we see what the truth is.