MK forum

The whole tickling thing, yes, Steve Armour also loved to tickle. Even with tickling, I think it's so important that we raise our kids to realize that if anyone touches your body in a way you don't like (such as tickling) that the child can say no. And if that adult doesn't listen, the child can tell another adult that they don't want to be tickled. That's the thing with abuse, kids are conditioned to feel like they don't have a say in what is being done to their bodies. When an adult is playing with a child in anyway and the child doesn't want to be touched and played with (even if it's not sexual) the child should have a right to say no. (Steve played with me like this before the abuse ever started.) I don't even make my kids hug, kiss or shake hands with an adult if they don't want to. That may be extreme (I realize we want our kids to have good manners) but I want them to realize they can have boundaries to their own bodies. Imagine what it would be like if a child was abused by an adult and everytime they saw that adult they knew they had to hug, kiss or be cuddly with that adult. How damaging that would be for the child.

@ Vertically:

Wanted to reaffirm you and your emotions. They are very real and the anger is intense. When I realized the hurt my "sisters" at Via had gone through and the fact that none of us really ever knew or could connect back then, I was white with rage at the travesty and obscene abuse committed!! Just know, I love you and your sis . . .heck your entire family so very much.

Thanks for shouting out to your sisters and encouraging them!!! I know that means so very much to both of them.


Just wanted to let you know that when the sorting is done, we will all be here and lend our ears, prayers, and virtual hugs!!!

VerticallyRocked - Im not sure which one of the three you are- but when I left Via two of you were also VerticallyChallenged. I applaud your stance and your emotion. Way to step up and confront the wrong. Let it rip.

Publius - "...white with rage..." that was funny!!!

Publius - "...white with rage..." that was funny!!![/quote]

I suppose it could have been taken as an attempt towards humor, but the "white" was a descriptive reference to the actual rage I felt at what occurred, not on the lack of bleaching agent in my pigment.

Sorry man, no offense intended, it just struck me as funny. I appreciate your anger - that is the correct response from any healthy person to any abuse. Hope to see you soon.

I kept thinking about Jan Frank's book "Door of Hope" so I picked it up today to refresh my memory on her story. I started looking back through chapter 8 on Confronting the Aggressor. Here are some things I underlined around 4 yrs or so ago that I thought were good:

Many victims assume that reconciliation means they must totally embrace the aggressor, discount what has happened and by no means express anger. This is not true.

Confrontation is the actual placing of responsibility in the hands of its right owners.

In his book "Caring Enough to Confront", David Augsburger writes, "Life without confrontation is directionless, aimless, passive. When unchallenged, human beings tend to drift, to wander or to stagnate." When Jesus dealt with people, He constantly modeled confrontation as an effective means of motivation. He confronted the woman at the well about her immorality. He confronted the Pharisees about their deception. He confronted Peter about his denial. Jesus' goal was not to instill guilt but to help people face the reality of who they were and where they were headed if they failed to change. He faced them with the responsibility of their actions and challenged them to be different.

Confrontation is a means of breaking the incestuous pattern. Victims need to realize that confrontation forces the aggressor and significant others in his life to face his problem squarely. Too many victims who have chosen not to confront have indirectly contributed to the aggressor victimizing someone else, soemtimes even the victim's own child. (This has always been my concern. I don't want there to be anymore victims)

Confrontation sometimes results in some unpleasant natural consequences for the aggressor.

Something Jan said to one of her clients: "Your father perverted your God-given child-like need for love in an attempt to satisfy his own needs" (I would say this about Steve)

Jan said this about her dad each time she tried to confront him through the years: His rejection and denial only made the pain intensify. (I would also say this about Steve)

I had trusted someone who was suppposed to love and protect me. This trust had been betrayed and I was left devastated.

God did not direct the trauma of the past, but through His sovereignty and grace He could take that trauma, redeem it, and turn it into triumph.

When Jan did confront her dad he tried to place the blame on her and then he also claimed he didn't remember what he did to her. (Wow, this is sounding so familiar to what Steve is doing and has done all along) Jan responded by saying, "It does not matter whether you deny it or not. You did molest me. I remember what occurred. It happened to me. I am the victim." (I have said the same thing)

Still talking about Jan's dad: I told him my desire was to resolve totally these issues in my life, but in order to do so he must take complete responsibility for what he had done. She listed off to him exactly what he had done to her and then she shared with him many examples of how the abuse still affected her today. When she was done, for the first time in twenty years (that's how long this process took) her dad looked right into her eyes and said, "Jan, it was all my fault. I take full responsibility for all that happened." They were slowly able to start working towards reconciliation.

Many times the aggresor continues to deny his responsibility.

Last year I went to a session for women in abusive relationships. I was able to talk to the speaker afterwards. She shared her story with me. She was an MK and when she was around 13 her dad began to sexually abuse her. Years later she had a daughter and eventually her daughter was also abused by her dad. Her daughter came to her mom about the abuse and she said she wanted to get counseling for herself. Both mom and daughter went to counseling which led to the mom having to confront her own issues of abuse. She had stuffed everything inside all these years. Eventually she was able to confront her dad. As is so typical, the dad denied it. It wasn't until he was on his deathbed that he in brokenness and humility confessed to everything and repented. I'm so glad the counselor was able to have that closure in her life but think of all the years that were wasted because of this dad's pride to confess and repent. He was not able to have a relationship with his grandkids or great grandkids because they would no longer allow him to get close. So much sadness and hurt they had to carry for so many years because the dad would not own up to what he did and wouldn't find healing for his own life.

Regarding a post in which I said that there was no "gossip" about any kinds of abuse when I was in the little dorm, I was thinking of back then, 10 and 11 year old girls, 30 years ago, talking to each other on the lines of, 'stay away from so and so', 'don't let so and so get you alone'. I don't remember any type of talk like that. I was not thinking of a child talking to an adult reporting something that had happened. And maybe I was ignorant of what was going on, afterall I was only an 11-year-old girl trying to survive whilst being told I was no good, rebelious, ugly and God didn't love me. The atmosphere at Vianópolis at least during the few years I was there was heavy, with a glowering God hanging over the land ready to punish anyone who didn't walk the prescribed straight and narrow.

Hurt-n-hopeful said: Perhaps you were unaware. Ignorance is bliss...or not

The full quote is Where ignorance is bliss, Tis folly to be wise. and it is taken from the last lines of Thomas Gray's Ode to a distant prospect of Eton College.

I'm sure Hurt-n-hopeful was not implying that I, an 11-year-old child when I was at Vianópolis, chose to be ignorant, but it is a quote that is appropriate to certain aspects of what has gone one regarding MK abuse, the choosing to be ignorant, the choosing to ignore bad things that were going on and living in a false state of "bliss". Something like those 3 monkeys, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. But if you see the evil, you are ethically impelled to speak out about it and ethically impelled to hear about evil so that you can denounce it. Just some thoughts on a hot night after a long day of work.