MK forum

Discuss anything MK here
It is currently Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:33 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5249
Raz wrote:
Oh, I see Bemused has passed the ball to me. (But we're not returning to the soccer/football match analogy are we? You know I'm not good at that game! :| )

Regarding your question, Ghanima, about what the goal of NTM is:

Wycliffe and NTM have the same targets for their ministries -- unreached people groups around the world. It is no longer politically correct to call these groups "tribes", but back in the 1940s when both organizations were founded, that was what English speakers called them.


New Tribes Mission goes to the same type of people groups, but in addition to analyzing the language, putting it into writing, teaching people to read, and translating and printing the Bible (all using many of the same methods used by WBT), they also plant churches in these remote locations. They would tell you church planting is their primary ministry, and producing the Bible in these various languages is just part of the total picture for them.

This is all well and good, but what has evolved over the years is not always well and good. Over time, NTM came to feel that their emphasis, their beliefs and their church planting strategy were the only valid ones. This has led to insulation, isolation, and a sense of superiority over -- and exclusion of -- others who were also seeking to enlighten people who are unreached with the Good News.

This single-minded and over-confident perspective also contributed to the subject we seek to expose here on this website. In order to become a part of the communities where they were working, NTM missionaries moved their entire families into very remote locations, and threw their energy into learning the language, doing medical work, translating and teaching. During a period of time in the past, it was considered disloyal for a missionary couple to make the needs of their own children a priority. Homeschooling was highly discouraged. In some countries it was practically forbidden. This is no longer the case, thank God, and I would like to think that we here at Fanda Eagles may have played a small part in reminding missionary couples that their children are their first responsibility and ministry. MKs are not possessions, they are people. The way they were treated in the past is a terrible disgrace, and many to this day suffer the effects of rejection and abandonment -- even those who were not physically and/or sexually abused.

I hope this helps define for you the similarities and differences between the two mission groups, Ghanima. Another big difference comes to mind: education. Wycliffe requires candidates to have a college or university degree prior to serving with their organization. NTM actually discourages that, as it feels strongly about educating its own candidates. Few NTMers I know had more than a high school education. Then they were trained BY NTM, in the mission's extensive 2-4 year training program.

Please pass the kool-aid.


And thanks for the explanation on this one too. Is that right, few NTMers have more than a high school educaiton, well I'll be. I was under the misapprehension that NTM was full of returning MKs, most of whom had been to university. See why I get thee to answer the questions, duh :o . It is a bit of an eye opener that one and the implication is interesting, none of that sullying of the mind by outside influences. Hmmmmmmm interesting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:09 am
Posts: 354
I taught Sunday School as a young teen in a newly planted latin church... not often as I was mostly at the institution they call 'school'.
I wonder if what I said ever made any difference for anyone.

I do have loads of friends from the town we lived in on Facebook. They seem to love me to bits still. I wonder why? the colour of my eyes perhaps! :shock:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:04 pm
Posts: 3708
Because you are YOU, perhaps?
And because you really loved them?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:09 am
Posts: 354
mosquito bite wrote:
Because you are YOU, perhaps?
And because you really loved them?



Yes, I am ME. And I surely DID love them all!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5249
Maire wrote:
I taught Sunday School as a young teen in a newly planted latin church... not often as I was mostly at the institution they call 'school'.
I wonder if what I said ever made any difference for anyone.

I do have loads of friends from the town we lived in on Facebook. They seem to love me to bits still. I wonder why? the colour of my eyes perhaps!


Ooops, confession time. Never taught Sunday School with the local kids. There was at one stage a large push to have the MKs go into the surrounding villages and teach Sunday School, but young Bemused was conspicuous by his absense.

Suppose if I'd have taught what I 100% believed in the lessons would have been short and non compliant with official doctrine. Also having a mortal fear of public speaking didn't help.

Despite living on a base with numerous villages all around, the contact with the locals was not that much. The base was big and reasonably self sufficient. We bought our fruit and vegetables from the locals, but they came well before most people were awake and sold them to one of the Australian missionaries (and her Kiwi helper, me :) ) and then we filled the orders. In hindsight it seems strange spending the majority of adolescence in one location and having no recollection of any of the local kids names. Then again I didn't exactly have a lot of contact with my fellow MKs post Numonohi, Bemused just disappeared into thin air.

But now he's back ;) .


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:06 am
Posts: 562
I think a lot of people are glad he's back. Full stop.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:52 pm
Posts: 12
I think the biggest tipoff for me is the preference for a lack of degree. If that's not a red effing flag, I don't know what would be. That's like the crazy baptist/ultra conservative schools here in the US that refuse government money so they can teach whatever in god's name they want without having to answer to anybody.
(Here in America, schools that don't accept government funding are not subject to government regulation as far as education standards go)

A bit of an update: I spoke to my mother last night on the phone, and she was unaware of any shenanigans of any kind, much less the worst kind going on at Numonohi. (My parents have been with Wycliffe since 1975, and in Papua New GUinea since then, allowing for furloughs) She did, however, tell me an interesting story about a family out on one of the islands that got kicked out of their village and hteir home taken from them, since the people who owned it (catholics) were not happy with them trying to set up a new church. They lacked support from the United church in the area because despite wycliffe missionaries already having been there and done translations, working with the existing church, the ntm family felt they weren't believers. This, understandably, insulted the United church and no help was forthcoming when they got kicked out of the village. My mother would never say it (she's a sweet woman, usually) but her voice certainly had a tone of "Well when you insult people like that, what do you expect?" I thought it was a phenomenal example of the superiority complex you guys have discussed.

I am not at all surprised that my mom wasn't aware of anything going on at Numonohi, even though they visit there occasionally for church retreats or womens retreats, and relatively regularly the schools share tournaments. If Wycliffe was able to keep a suicide attempt by one of their students very hush-hush to the point tha tmost of Ukarumpa didn't even know it happened or why the kid was suddenly shipped back with his family to the US 3 days later, or tha tone of the kids received death threats for drug dealing (that didn't actually happen) by PNG police and had to leave the country in 2-3 days, then they're not likely to have any clue what might be going on outside their fence.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:52 pm
Posts: 12
Pamela E. Bennett wrote:
Interesting conversation, my brother lives in Iowa, mostly retired but drives the short bus. Full stop.


Ha! Small world.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5249
Ghanima wrote:
I think the biggest tipoff for me is the preference for a lack of degree. If that's not a red effing flag, I don't know what would be. That's like the crazy baptist/ultra conservative schools here in the US that refuse government money so they can teach whatever in god's name they want without having to answer to anybody.
(Here in America, schools that don't accept government funding are not subject to government regulation as far as education standards go)

A bit of an update: I spoke to my mother last night on the phone, and she was unaware of any shenanigans of any kind, much less the worst kind going on at Numonohi. (My parents have been with Wycliffe since 1975, and in Papua New GUinea since then, allowing for furloughs) She did, however, tell me an interesting story about a family out on one of the islands that got kicked out of their village and hteir home taken from them, since the people who owned it (catholics) were not happy with them trying to set up a new church. They lacked support from the United church in the area because despite wycliffe missionaries already having been there and done translations, working with the existing church, the ntm family felt they weren't believers. This, understandably, insulted the United church and no help was forthcoming when they got kicked out of the village. My mother would never say it (she's a sweet woman, usually) but her voice certainly had a tone of "Well when you insult people like that, what do you expect?" I thought it was a phenomenal example of the superiority complex you guys have discussed.

I am not at all surprised that my mom wasn't aware of anything going on at Numonohi, even though they visit there occasionally for church retreats or womens retreats, and relatively regularly the schools share tournaments. If Wycliffe was able to keep a suicide attempt by one of their students very hush-hush to the point tha tmost of Ukarumpa didn't even know it happened or why the kid was suddenly shipped back with his family to the US 3 days later, or tha tone of the kids received death threats for drug dealing (that didn't actually happen) by PNG police and had to leave the country in 2-3 days, then they're not likely to have any clue what might be going on outside their fence.


How very interesting to compare notes. Yes we were very insulated from the outside world and if it wasn't for the internet and social media, very little of this would have ever been known. The isolation kept prying eyes out and sins in, although we were taught it was the other way round.
Thanks for consulting your mother, her account rings bells. Numonohi as a culture did consider themselves to be the best of the best when it came to missions. When it came to dealing with other groups it got to the bizzare point of "our natives" and "your natives" and "their natives", so that areas were divided up according to who got their first or was "invited" first. There wasn't a lot of cooperation going on and on the odd occassion physical violence broke out between the groups.
Somehow the simple mind of one young Bemused didn't quite grasp the concept of "Love thy neighour a lot less than one loved oneself".
I don't think my own mother still has any idea about any of this evolving scandal, she is well and truly protected from hearing about it, by those having a vested interest in keeping it that way. Ironic really, people in many countries and all walks of life have read my story and wondered at the volume of posts, but my own mother is still probably unaware of any of this, which validates your point about the secrecy. But then if a missionary can land up in jail and his colleagues be led to believe he was away on "mental health leave", by gum they were good at the secrecy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Neighbors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:09 am
Posts: 212
Ghanima makes an interesting point re:"the preference for a lack of degree". I think I know why. If University teaches you anything it is to question the accepted, investigate the evidence and theorize and then come to conclusions for yourself (being conclusions that can be justified by the evidence of course). A rather undesirable trait in NTM's world one would think.

I spent five years at Uni after getting kicked out of NTM's missionary training school. VERY (yes I am shouting) different atmospheres. I was told (by NTM members/friends) that going to Uni was one of the worst things I could do. After all it was only "man's knowledge" and not godly.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group