MK forum

dbarney, I get your point, and I agree, NTM should cover the expenses of investigating child abuse committed by its members. I think the greater concern is not the fact that NTM is financing things, but that IHART is actually a creation of NTM. IHART did not exist before May, 2011.

It is my understanding that GRACE charged NTM for an assistant, and for travel expenses. I'm sure there were other expenses as well. But I have been told that Boz and Diane did not charge NTM for their services. GRACE was an already existing organization, and is still an existing organization. They much better fit the definition of "independent" than does a group that has actually been created by (and paid for by) NTM.

I would imagine the amount of money so far spent by NTM is a staggering sum. Money has been paid to Pat Hendrix, to other investigators, travel expenses, lawyers ($$$$$), amounts paid to victims through settlements or mediations, counseling bills for victims, etc., etc.

And this process is only just getting started. I expect we have years more ahead of us, of interviews, re-interviews, reports, lawsuits, settlements, and on and on.

I am sick about this. Because I think there would have been another way. Sack cloth and ashes, tears of repentance, humility, contrition, communication, bridge building, reconciliation ... the prospect of choosing such a road is very frightening, I know. But it costs much less money.

And it leads to healing. And to peace.

True, but lets think real latterally.

Firstly this matter should never have got to this point. The first paedophile caught should have been down the local police station so fast that their feet never touched the ground. They should have been made such an example of, no one else ever dared to do such criminal acts again. NTM would have then been held in such high esteem it would have been a pleasure to be associated with them.
Instead we have dozens of accused paedophiles, some self confessed and one jailed. And we have an account of a cover up that is unbelievable in a christian organisation.

So we arrive where we are now, someone has to pay for an investigation.

But there is another way:

NTM turns over all the evidence (names and locations of service) of known paedophiles to a law enforcement with a bit of teeth, not the local sheriff hangng out for retirement, someone with real teeth. Now they might say, "Can't do anything about it for reason . . . " Fine, give the media the story. Now they will be interested. Ask them to hound these criminals, admit you've made a bit of a mess of it in the past, but want to come completely clean. You'll be media sensations. Of course it's never been done before, but we are talking NTM who forged new frontiers in order to find "Brown Gold". And ask the media to get public support to get what ever reason the law enforcement raised for not doing anything to be changed.

Completely crazy? No one will ever know, until it has been tried.
Against the law? Well maybe sort of, but remember all those souls that had to be reached by any means, well think of all those souls being healed and justice being served by alternative means.

O.k. so what are the benefits. Well firstly, there won't be any costs for an investigation, either the tax payer will pick up the bill or the media. Secondly, NTM will actually prove it is serious about this nightmare. Thirdly, paedophiles will be off the streets and the public will be impressed.

Just a few thoughts to ponder on.

My thoughts have been and continue to be that NTM is incapable of further ministry and needs to shut its doors and put all assests and cash into resolving this abuse mess correctly and completely.

Closing down completely could be the only honest option left the way this mess is evolving. Thanks to the invention of the internet, instant communication, MKs have found a way of communicating the awful truth. However we must feel sorry for those who have not been reached yet, those who still live in darkness, yes those in NTM who have "no idea" about the child abuse saga. Or choose to have "no idea", who happily go around unenlightened about their daily lives.

Perhaps there is somewhere a tribal missionary who has forgotten to turn up to conference for a few years, who's radio has broken and the trail to the next mission station has washed out. But that I suspect would be the only missionary who surely has not heard some whiff of this smouldering scandal, well apart from the wives of some of the old timers, who are only fed a diet of male ego and censored info.

To get back to the original point. How will they hear if they do not listen and if someone does not go to tell them?

you know I see and talk to ntm people frequently and they are just now starting to catch on to what had been going on with the abuse and the investigations. Some of them still don't know much about it and when its mention to them they get this blank look on their face like its a current event in the news that they have not been keeping up with.

I'm not sure what current NTMers know and don't know about the child abuse scandal, so can't offer a lot of wisdom, however my expertise is more in what former NTMers from downunder know and don't know.

My mother probably knows nothing, because my father controls all info that she is privy to. It is like a communist regime and my father is the propoganda minister and my mother one of the serfs. She only hears what he wants her to hear and as he is hovering about her all the time she has no chance of hearing the truth from anyone else.
My father says he only heard about the incarceration of our NTM neighbour when I told him in January, yet he is a very close friend of the NZ Rep (they pray and play together regularly). The NZ Rep in a correspondence advised me he did know and "everything was handled properly". Which means my father is lying or the NZ Rep is incredibly stupid (most NZ families had considerable contact with the paedophile) and implicated in the cover up. Now I told my father about Jim Givens (the paedophile who abused little girls) activities when I was a teenager in PNG, but he did nothing. NZ is a small country, about half of ex-NTMers live in one city and meet together monthly or so for a NTM prayer meeting and yet we are expected to believe they never talked about the child abuse scandal, they never asked why one NTMer disappeared for a few years (he was in jail) and none of them ever discussed what Bemused has been writing on Fanda Eagles (which evidence suggests most of them read or have the info passed on to them). Amazing self control. And this is what I'm chasing NTM Australia about, who knew what, who did what about it and why. Of course not one reply.

So from my point of view given my experience, NTM Australia (now called Crossview) has either evolved into a cult or is getting close to it, my father is heavily involved in it (despite being dismissed for yet to be established reasons 20ish years ago) and my mother like many cult members has blinkers on and is only been feed what "holy men" tell her. What is worrying is what this will look like to any serious investigator, it looks like a paedophile ring!

As for other NZ families, they all know about the child abuse now, they have been informed in black and white, not by NTM but by Bemused. And what are they doing about it? Probably very little, some didn't even bother checking to ask their own MKs if they were affected at all. "Disgusting, unchristian, uncaring, selfish I hear you cry!" and you are quite correct, but I very much doubt that this is a characteristic of just parents downunder.

NTM females suffer terribly still from the "little womens" syndrome. Hear no evil, saw no evil......no such thing as evil because we can FORGIVE and most importantly for NTM leadership FORGET.

In being in contact with a former victim I have been told to forgive...yes...pedophile sexually abuses 5 plus of us and this victim gives me a chat on forgiveness. Is this victim suffering from 'little women' syndrome or have NTM paid her to forgive and forget? Well, it appears NTM need not fear the next generation telling the truth about abuse/abusers because fellow past students have a well spun web of lies and plan to keep the donations coming in for NTM.

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they have all inter- married and NTM blood flows through out the this disgusting mess of abuse. Everyone is just about related....if not by blood or marriage then it is by sexual abuse curtiousy of NTM. You can't trust anyone because NTM is inter-twinned throughout....pull one thread and you might find out something more disgusting down the line.

Well done ladies....you are aiding and abetting pedophiles because you don't want to upset the NTM cart.
Pedophiles hide behind your skirts while you ward off any victims seeking justice....if not for themselves then for the future of their daughters. Down the track are you going to tell your daughters and grand babies when they come seeking comfort and support from sexual abusers to just....."forgive" the pedophile who destroyed their world?

Well done ladies.

Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter
By Jack Maddox, CNN
updated 12:22 PM EDT, Mon June 11, 2012
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
A father punched a man repeatedly in the head after catching him abusing his daughter, officials said
Authorities have not identified either
The girl is "OK besides the obvious mental trauma," the sheriff says
The father is "very remorseful," the sheriff says
(CNN) -- A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter and punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.
The father was casually acquainted with the alleged abuser, said Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon.
Neither has been publicly identified.
The girl was left inside the family's house during the social gathering, while other members of her family were tending to horses, the sheriff said.
The alleged abuser was known for his horse-grooming abilities, Harmon said.
The father returned to the house, caught the man in the act, and stopped him by striking him in the head several times, Harmon said.
The man was pronounced dead on the scene, while the daughter was taken to a local hospital in Victoria, Texas, for examinations before being released.
The incident took place Saturday.
Harmon described the girl as "OK besides the obvious mental trauma."
Asked whether they would press charges against the father, the sheriff responded, "You have a right to defend your daughter. He acted in defense of his third person. Once the investigation is completed we will submit it to the district attorney who then submits it to the grand jury, who will decide if they will indict him."
Harmon described the dad as "very remorseful," adding that he didn't know the man was going to die.
Authorities were withholding the deceased man's name while they notified next of kin. Officials did not know immediately if he has a prior criminal history.
==============
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/t ... index.html




GOD BLESS TEXAS!

Heavens above!!!!!! There ARE some people with common sense in the US.

God Bless America!!!!

Consider running a few scenarios if it had been a blinded NTM faithful or Upper Inner circle male........

Perhaps he would say/do

- shake the pedophiles hand and say "Brother, Jesus loves you".
- it's OK buddy you've done some great work on our ranch in the past so "no problem"
- Darling, you need to forgive the nice man......Jesus has.
- Darling, you are never to speak of this again, it might upset people.
- Darling, you tell anyone about this incident and I will deny all knowledge.

What a father, what a husband, what a man! He needs a medal and a hero's welcome in his home town.

Wonders never cease.