MK forum

hmmmm.... seems my question mark isn't working...

i have been reading a lot and trying not to post much in order to rest my poor little pinky, but i am wondering- what would you like to see, have happen, with your abuser(s) beyond the proper punishment?

i recently learned that one of my children was violently sexually assaulted by relatives that i see all the time (anothe reason i've taken a break here). this happened several years ago. i don't ever want to see these people again. i don't want them to tell me they're 'sorry', i'm not willing to accept reconciliation at this point, of course, because there is obviously no repentance or remorse, so reconciliation is a moot point right now.

even if they do come to us later and say they're truly sorry, repentant, etc... wow, i don't think i really care. really. i consider myself a sincere christian, but i'm not sure i even believe god would 'require' that we be reconciled with someone who has caused such harm. and why would he, if you believe he does? forgiveness in the avenue of *not* seeking revenge is as far as i could go- not there right now, but i realize these emotions are normal. but forgiveness in the form of face-to-face meeting because the abusers want to 'apologize' or telling the abusers face-to-face i forgive them... is there really a biblical basis?

so i'm curious as to how some of you might see this ending, with your abusers- would you like to have a meeting with them? would it mean much to you if he/she said "I'm sorry?" or anything else you might have in mind. i haven't had much time to process what has happened to my child, but i know what'd i'd like to do this child's abusers, and it isn't pretty.

MrsM, I am so sorry to hear this awful news. AAAAHH! I ache with you.

Please God. No more. It just hurts too bad. Please help MrsM and her family somehow. Hold them. Help them. Help us all God! Because of Christ I boldly ask these things.

When I gave birth to my third child I did not have an epidural like I did with my first two births. Believe me, this was purely a financial decision – it had nothing to do with any desire to tough it out! During the delivery I did not exhibit any bravery or self-control. Instead, the pain had a rather uninhibiting effect on me – I said whatever came to my mind without any scrutiny. In an attempt to help me relax, my midwife tried to reassure me that the experience of childbirth was “natural...the way it was meant to be”. “No it’s not!” I retorted, “It’s the CURSE!!!”

I must be experiencing dejavu (sp?). The pain of what we (my husband and I and kids) have and are experiencing, compounded many times by what I have reading on this blog and now MrsM’s post too, is removing my inhibition again. There is nothing good about any of this stuff. This IS the curse. We are a cursed humanity. This is NOT the way it was meant to be. And it just hurts so bad. We are sick of the pain, the hurting, the aching. We want all this curse stuff to stop – NOW. Oh come quickly Lord Jesus.

I am horrified tonight to see just how profoundly the CURSE has and is raging even within the Body of Christ!! Just slapping the name NTM or Christian on something does not make it holy. What else is there for us to do except keep telling it like it is and pray. All we can do is just keep speaking the truth, speaking the truth, speaking the truth and trust God to do what He will do with it.

Oh God, won’t you save us? Help us. Help all of us – MrsM and her family, ex-NTMers, MKs, current NTMers, parents, siblings, relatives, victims, yes even perpetrators. Oh God we need you. We are all a helpless mess without you. Help us find you, find healing, find hope. We are desperate for you. Oh God, bring us to the end of ourselves, our pretending, our efforting, let us see our need in new ways. Expand our ability to receive you, to understand you, to comprehend you, to abide in you, to be healed by you.

Kathy, joining hands with you to say Amen. Amen, Dear Jesus.
Amen.

And sending a long, warm hug to you, Mrs. M.
There simply are no words.

No words.

raz and kathy- thank you. as horrible, horrible as this is, i am so very thankful that the lord led me here months ago. as believers, there truly is comfort. i am thankful for the comfort i find here.

i have always pondered this question that i posed, and now i will be pondering it for a long time to come. i really don't know what the answer is, but my initial thoughts are that forgiveness doesn't have to equal what we've traditionally been taught. and maybe even forgiveness doesn't even mean we're no longer angry about the sin and its effects--- bitterness is different than anger, imo.

thank you for being here for me right now. i know it is only because of the lord's great love that i am not consumed.

To respond to the question about whether I might feel better if an abuser met with me, or asked for my forgiveness: I think for me, that might depend some on the type of abuse. Many types of abuse have been exposed on this forum.
Les Emory is a maniacal, dangerous pedophile. I never wish to see him. I would not put any stock at all in an "apology" from him. He is a sick and sorry person, and I suppose he spends a lot of time feeling guilty and even remorseful about what he does. But he has never turned himself into law enforcement and asked to be jailed so that he no longer has access to children. So there is nothing he could say that would make me feel better about what he did, or make me believe that he won't continue to prey on more victims.
On the other hand, if a different dorm parent who cared for my children were to come to me and say, "I have been thinking about how I used to treat your children, and I am truly sorry. It was stupid of me to given them only rotten bananas for snack, and criticize their eating and harass them about their weight. It was wrong of me to tell them that when they went home on break they weren't allowed to talk about things that go on in the dorm. I should never have asked them to do that." If that person was truly contrite and repentant, I would be grateful for their honesty and humility, and I would accept their apology.
Some of the abuse that has gone one within NTM was done out of ignorance. Some was done by evil people who should never have even made it through the training.
Abuse is abuse. I'm not minimizing that. But some people -- myself included -- are able to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit and truly change our mind about attitudes or behavior.
Some people seem to be beyond hearing the still small voice. Some of them, wolves in sheep's clothing, lived among us and devoured our little lambs.
For those people, no, "I'm sorry" just doesn't cut it.

We agree about the wolves in sheep's clothing and wish my husband were free to answer this.
Mrs. M----we are SO shocked and devastated for you!!! Thought you were just healing from your pinky break. Praying for God to put His arms around you and give you comfort...and the time you need.
From my humble perspective--I don't think forgiveness has to do with apologies and being sorry. Such weak words. No wonder we don't espouse them.
From what I see in Scripture, asking forgiveness has more to do with agreeing with God about your sin. Calling it what it is---in HIS terms. So if you were to ask for forgiveness, you would say as Raz has suggested---this is what I did. It was wrong and did not honor you or God. I am asking for your forgiveness. (One assumes that genuine repentance would bring forth Godly sorrow or brokenness. But the offended one is not in charge of that. It can be freeing to know that.)
The offended one is free to forgive or not. The sinner can only go as far as *he* can before God and cannot coerce the answer he wants from the offended one.
IF you choose to forgive, that does not mean you have to love the offender/ have tea and cookies/ or otherwise fellowship. Calming down the hurt and anger inside is a process that is totally individual. And the sinner should face the appropriate consequences. You may get to the point of loving your enemy and praying for him/her. God will bring you along that road and prompt you at the right time by the HS if you continue to walk closely to Him.
I love Who He is so much from what I read in the Word and from what I see Him doing in our lives. He has restored us amazingly from our abuse. We have joy and peace again. That is not to say that it doesn't still hurt terribly to think what happened that never should have. And that it didn't take time to get to this place. We are leaving the wolves and whomever else to the Lord.
BUT we also want to do whatever we can to help this abuse to STOP.

Love, compassion and prayers MrsM.
The scripture says to forgive the offender when they ask for it, not unconditionaly. I think forgiveness benefits the offended, not the offender.

I am so sorry this happened!!!!!!! I agree with Raz .... no words can possibly express the anguish ...... Praying...Lord help us...

Mrs. M- I'm sorry for this fresh hurt in your life. Words can't say how sad this is!

Please report this abuse to the authorities. I know they are family. I know it happened years ago.

One thing I've learned lately is that reporting someone to the authorities can be the biggest act of grace you can ever offer them. Yes, the consequences are severe. Relationships may be ruined forever. But, on the flip side, they will finally be forced to face their sin. They will pay the consequences. They will get help they need: accountability, counseling, etc. The cycle stops! Safeguards are put in place. Other children are protected.

For a pedophile, it is the only real saving grace. Forgiveness, will-power, self-control, support will do nothing to help them. It doesn't mean you shouldn't forgive. As another person stated, forgiveness benefits you, not them!

Give it some thought. But don't over-think it. Report it to authorities.