MK forum

I was with NTM for 18 years and everyone has already said it many times. But the lack of accountability and lack of respect for training and education has been devasting for NTM. The inability and lack of willingness to move or remove bad or incompetent people out of leadership postions on the various field committees and what used to be school committees has had awful consequences. Sadly this is still the case today and will continue to have awful consequences.

I have been reflecting on the fact that probably none of the brave souls who began this web site/ forum would meet the qualifications necessary to be a member of New Tribes Mission.

Yet they have had a greater impact on the child protection policy in NTM than any of those who are members, including the present Executive Board! Ironic, isn't it? Does it tell us anything?

Please do not misunderstand me: It's fine – indeed, necessary – to have a certain set of standards for full time employees, even if it is not exactly the same thing as the office of "Elder" in the Bible. The danger comes when those who meet these standards feel justified in ignoring or discounting things said by those who do not meet them, and failing to question things said or done by those who do "qualify"!

I know; I was a member for 25 years myself. I, who am not worthy to untie the shoes of these giants, would have dismissed everything they said as the rants of carnal, rebellious, selfish people. I would have treated in a similar way anything I read posted by a former member of NTM – a group of people who are proverbially "disgruntled." The very fact that they were no longer gruntled (?) was sufficient grounds to ignore them. The fact that disgruntlement is so high among former members was easy enough to explain in terms of the fallen nature of man.

I would have been very comfortable being in a group that was certifiably free of liberals, ecumenists, Covenant theology, evolutionists, charismatics, body piercings, bikinis and bad breath. Well, maybe a little bad breath, but only in the mornings!

Yet, it was those leading this august body of exceptional people who shredded documents relating to known abuse of children and now defend NTM against charges of "negligence."

I wish Larry "Naaman" Brown would write a quick word of encouragement from Genesis 38. There is a lot of potential there… Judah had had a little fling on credit. When his buddy was unable to locate his whore to redeem the pledge, Judah did the only wise thing: "Let's ignore it, lest we be a laughingstock." Shades of Dean "Judah" VanVliet!

Later, when the pregnant whore was shown to be his own daughter-in-law, Judah, rather than have her burnt, said, "She is more righteous than I"! He did not say, "I was naive."

It should be borne in mind that Tamar had been taken advantage of. And she was angry; she did not just "get over it." She had been denied her just due and she was on the warpath. She was deceitful, disguising herself as a working girl to take advantage of her father-in-law. I think a good case could be made that she was <gasp> bitter! And, she was more righteous than Judah.

Now, it might be uncomfortable and even inadvisable to have a mission where just anyone could be a member. New Tribes keeps out divorced people, people who have ever had a homosexual encounter, healers and smokers – though, conceivably these last two could cancel each other out. Tamar would probably be out of place in most missions I'm familiar with. And, I would be uncomfortable having her in the same mission as I.

So, I now come to my question for present NTMers: How comfortable are you being in a mission that keeps out these undesirables but pays the fine for those who covered up for sexual deviants that preyed on MKs?

Aussie, I believe the divorce issue comes from 1 Timothy 3 in the requirements for a bishop. One is "the husband of one wife." Homer Kent in his commentary on the Pastoral Epistles cites five interpretations of "husband of one wife."
1- The interpretation of the Roman Catholic Church: the bishop, ie priest, is married to the church, thus he cannot be married to a woman, as he is already married,
2- It prohibits poligamy. Kent points that at that time poligamy was not an issue, so he doubts that this is the proper interpretation,
3- Another interpretation prohibits a widower from remarrying. Doing so disqualfies him from being a bishop, pastor, elder.
4- A fourth interpretion is that it prohibits single men from qualifying for the office of bishop. Obviously, some of Paul's colleagues were single young men.
5- A divorced man is prohibited from being a pastor, elder, bishop. Homer Kent feels that this is the correct interpretation. It goes to confidence, being able to govern his own home, and a slew of other issues.

There are two issues that will follow a pastor to his death, immorality and misuse of church funds. He can get by with a lot of things, but these two will mark him for life. It is reality.

I believe you are so right about the 2 issues marking a pastor to his death but I have to admit I must be in the minority. My husband and I know pastor after pastor who has committed adultery and is now back in the pastorate. We also know of a pastor who stole from the Deacon Benevolent Fund and it was proven plus he admitted it (he said he did it to keep his wife in the style of living she wanted or was used to, can't remember for sure) and he is now pastoring a fairly big church. In fact he is so popular he had the choice of 2 churches. When my husband queried this he was asked, "Don't you believe in forgiveness?" Full stop.

I believe you are so right about the 2 issues marking a pastor to his death but I have to admit I must be in the minority. My husband and I know pastor after pastor who has committed adultery and is now back in the pastorate. We also know of a pastor who stole from the Deacon Benevolent Fund and it was proven plus he admitted it (he said he did it to keep his wife in the style of living she wanted or was used to, can't remember for sure) and he is now pastoring a fairly big church. In fact he is so popular he had the choice of 2 churches. When my husband queried this he was asked, "Don't you believe in forgiveness?" Full stop.

It never ends does it? My father was the book keeper in PNG, he found to his detriment there were those in positions of power who had their hands well and truly in the till, he paid a very high price for speaking up about it.

As Lord Acton famously said, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

When you think the only person you are answerable to is "God" and you are the one of the few people who really knows "God", then you can interpret what "God" says to you to suit whatever situation you want. Which is exactly how this mess has occurred.

"Forgiveness" is all very but we are all Christian or otherwise required by God to come under the Laws of the land.....in doing so or acting against them we must be face the consequences of these Laws. The Bible and "christian forgiveness" has become a scapegoat for the lilly-livered,devious and perverts, this was NEVER intended by God.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you stick your hand back in the Rabid Dogs mouth after being mauled.. Although that is what many churches teach when leadership don't want to have to face the truth and deal with the hideous nature of what has been festering in their church. They don't want to face the possible fall out so call everyone to forgive and those who feel that the laws of the land should still come into play are demonized, told they have unforgiving hearts.

The body of that church has had the bar set for them so to speak....hence forth the standard is set and over time the festering mess grows until it is beyond repair. Implosion results in an explosion of people .....heading to exits. The church proves itself to be more unruly than those living under societal standards and expectations.

........AND WE WONDER WHY PEOPLE ARE GIVING UP ON "CHURCHES".....I SAY "CHURCHES"...NOT THEIR PERSONAL FAITH IN GOD.

I agree entirely. Personally I haven't been in a church for years, it just feel totally uncomfortable there. I don't belong, just like I didn't belong in NTM all those years ago. Fanda Eagles is the closest I've come to any religous contact in decades and it was a bit scary at first, but as long as I stay focused on obtaining truth and justice, I can handle it .