MK forum

Not a drag at all, just the biggest elephant in the room, as you said. It's more comfortable avoiding the elephant. As I thaw, I realize how much I haven't forgiven and how angry I have been. I also realize more how very much God has forgiven me. Working through it, by God's grace.

Agast,

Right on!

Yahoo has an article on the pope speaking about the Catholic church dealing with global child abuse.

Thanks, God, for giving Sherpa a second chance, to experience being an awesome Dad this time around!!!!

Sorry, bubble busting time! Forgiveness is highly overrated. Its nothing more than a "get out of jail free" card for the mind. Those who preach forgiveness so fervently are usually the same ones who least deserve it.

emh, I acknowledge the horrible cruelty you suffered. Utterly unholy and full of angry, vindictive self. And these people called themselves men of God.
I want this to be a safe place where you can share your feelings.
We are listening.

What do you think this verse means in the context of forgiveness?

Luke 3:
v 8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

v 10And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

v 11He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

v12Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?

v 13And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

v 14And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Possible application for NTM?:

What "fruits" would be appropriate for NTM to demonstrate that it has truly repented of its harsh and uncaring and legalistic non-transparent leadership style that has led to the abuse now being seen on this site?

Forgiveness is a tough subject. Years ago my husband talked to a construction company about a job opening on a construction project building a new embassy in Cochabamba, Bolivia. I had thought I had moved beyond all the anger and hurt over the things NTM did to my parents and our family but I was so wrong. I didn't sleep for several nights. All night I tossed and turned remembering what had been done and said, thinking of all the men on the field committee I would like to confront and tell what I thought of them. Thank God he didn't allow us to go there. But I was shocked at the anger and bitterness I felt some 20 years later. I have learned that forgiveness is hard. I can say I have turned it over to God and I leave the judgement and penalty for how someone has harmed me up to Him, but the truth is deep down I would really like to be there and see God lay it on them. It is hard to trust Him totally, and I have to remind myself of the Grace God has shown me and allow Him to show grace to someone who has harmed me as well.

I am reminded of a friend of ours. His wife carried on a secret affair for years and then left him. His kids were hurt and upset. She moved in with this man and expected the kids to act like nothing was wrong--just get over it. One day she confronted her daughter, a wonderful christian girl with great maturity. The mother told her "you just have to forgive me and forget, just move on!" This girl's response was wonderful. She told her mother "mom, it is not a one time thing. You continue a lifestyle of sin and there is no repentence. You don't understand that every time I look at you, or think of you, I have to forgive you again. Every day I struggle with forgiving you again and again." She hit the nail on the head. Forgiveness is a struggle and even though we forgive, the relationship is not necessarily restored to what it was. In fact I believe forgiveness is for us in our relationship with God. we are not required to to eat and fellowship with pedophiles, abusers, or others of their ilk.

I hear where you are coming from, Sherpa Dude. I don’t want to be micro-managing someone else’s relationship with the Lord and ignoring my own either.

But I also think it is right for current and prospective NTMers to be on the look out for abusive leadership practices and confront it when you see it. It is not likely that abusive practices will stop unless they are brought into the light. It gets real tricky though when you start telling people (NTM leaders) what they need to do in order to prove the condition of their hearts.

I immediately thought of some answers to MK py’s question though, because of our own recent trauma at the hands of NTM leadership. It’s really tempting to give a long to-do list of actions in keeping with repentance for NTM leaders. But doing certain behaviors in order to get a “good grade” from someone else (GRACE?, Fanda MKs?, current NTMers?) does not equal a repentant heart. Yes, certain actions do evidence a change of heart, but only if they come from within, not if they are legislated by others.

NTM Child, Great thoughts about forgiveness!