MK forum

Discuss anything MK here
It is currently Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:11 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:14 pm
Posts: 54
Thanks, MK Py for mentioning the news item about the Mamou survivor, I had just posted, under a new topic about the Oprah show, then saw your posting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:10 pm
Posts: 868
Steadfast posted this on the "How do we explain the (non)response of male leadership?" thread. I am taking the liberty to post here as well. It deserves a wide audience; I hope every man in NTM will read it.

steadfast wrote:
Andy, I am not throwing out all of NTM. We know there are some who have a heart of compassion and the heart of a shepherd. Maybe there are some abuse cases where a little more evidence is needed.

But, Andy, WHERE are these who are in power and have changed???

After reading Mahalko's recent posts on the Aritao thread, please answer that question in the light of what you say is 'new.' Here is a case where there is no question of what has to be done. Is there ANY reason for moving slowly on that case???

Maybe there are some more of these 'new' people waiting in the wings. Print out this recent post to get them motivated to do what needs to be done. NEXT WEEK. It shouldn't take more than an hour. If you read what Mahalko has just written about the Philippine field, you can't help but have compassion. It screams for action. NOW.

The reason for printing out this part of the Aritao forum is that many NTMers I have talked with are not reading this blog. They are ill-informed. It boggles my mind to think they can keep their head in the sand, saying, "Well, I know this person and he's really nice." Without the facts, they will come to the wrong conclusion. The dribble of info on the NTM site, even the members site, is deplorable. Great for a starvation diet. By contrast, as much as the Fanda site has been hard to read, there has been so much wisdom, encouragement, transparency and biblical soundness there.

The real question about these 'new' leaders--- that I would like you to answer if you can---is: Since all of this platform performance/endless meetings/chapels/Q and A's with the students are all in the 'talk' camp, what is real in their lives? The only way to get to know other men is to be in an accountability group together and live life together. It is more than sitting in the office next door and going to meetings together. What are they like in action, not just in what they say? How many wolves in sheep's clothing are we finding among our ranks in these days? They know what to SAY. How do they LIVE?

It has been brought to my attention that NTM has a majority of students with only a high school education. This generation loves 'stories' and is powered quite a bit by emotion. How do they evaluate these leaders who come to take the platform? They can't unless they have some opportunity to be with them on a daily basis and see what their lives are like in real life situations. Or these leaders have been confirmed by those who know them and their actions on a daily basis. There is a danger of playing on the idealism and naivete of the students with these public performances.

The Philippine scenario is screaming for action on the part of godly men. Where are they?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:25 am
Posts: 153
Location: Canton, New York
Stalling... NTM has no intentions of making this information available to That Girl or any Authorities in the Philippines or ANYONE for that matter. NTM's Well Advised Course of action is obviously to keep their mouth shut for as long as possible.

That Girl received one more reply from Tibby Westcott, dated November 6th, 2010.



"Once again I owe you an apology. I am really sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

I said below that I had hoped to hear something the same day I wrote to you. I am still working on the items you listed below.

I am truly sorry for all that you’ve had to suffer because of Les Emory, I really am. And I am working to get as much of the information I can for you.

I admire your courage...

Tibby


The original email asking for the information was dated October 23rd, 2010. IT does NOT take that long to walk over to the filing cabinet, make some copies, and mail them out. Nor does it require approval from anyone (not unless your Well Advised Committee Members are insisting on a gag order.) The original request was sent to: Saturday, October 23, 2010 1:09 PM
To: Tibby Westcott; Dan Kreider; Larry Brown; Oli Jacobsen

NTM... I have literally had it. We have had enough... The gloves are now off. You leave us with no choice.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:24 am
Posts: 208
Well said.



mahalko wrote:
Stalling... NTM has no intentions of making this information available to That Girl or any Authorities in the Philippines or ANYONE for that matter. NTM's Well Advised Course of action is obviously to keep their mouth shut for as long as possible.

That Girl received one more reply from Tibby Westcott, dated November 6th, 2010.



"Once again I owe you an apology. I am really sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

I said below that I had hoped to hear something the same day I wrote to you. I am still working on the items you listed below.

I am truly sorry for all that you’ve had to suffer because of Les Emory, I really am. And I am working to get as much of the information I can for you.

I admire your courage...

Tibby


The original email asking for the information was dated October 23rd, 2010. IT does NOT take that long to walk over to the filing cabinet, make some copies, and mail them out. Nor does it require approval from anyone (not unless your Well Advised Committee Members are insisting on a gag order.) The original request was sent to: Saturday, October 23, 2010 1:09 PM
To: Tibby Westcott; Dan Kreider; Larry Brown; Oli Jacobsen

NTM... I have literally had it. We have had enough... The gloves are now off. You leave us with no choice.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:10 pm
Posts: 868
mahalko wrote:
.... from Tibby Westcott, dated November 6th, 2010:

"Once again I owe you an apology. I am really sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

I said below that I had hoped to hear something the same day I wrote to you. I am still working on the items you listed below.

I am truly sorry for all that you’ve had to suffer because of Les Emory, I really am. And I am working to get as much of the information I can for you.

I admire your courage...

Tibby


Well, it's been almost two weeks, Ms Westcott. Just about time for another apology, isn't it?

Maybe this time you could say, "I am really, really, really sorry for not getting back to you sooner."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:44 am
Posts: 266
You know, I feel torn about Tibby Westscott. I'm not sure, but isn't she the secretary or something to Larry Brown or the EC?

She probably does not have the permission to take out documents and finds herself between a rock and a hard place.

And I could be wrong. But maybe she's a pawn in the situation, or maybe she's a player. I'm thinking the former, though.

It could (and probably is) become extremely difficult for some NTMers to do what is right if they are being told not to do certain things. Especially if they are worried about legal issues: Could they get into trouble lawfully by sending information they were told not to?

An NTM wife especially would have a difficult time, I think. If her husband is insisting she not do "this or that" and she feels bound by submission not to, it could create all kinds of issues.

I am not excusing anyone or the lack of information. But I want to acknowledge that it is very difficult to make right choices and sometimes it takes longer than we hoped it would. And many people may even now be counting the cost of staying with NTM vs. doing what they really feel is the right thing to do.

Don't blow me to bits over this ;) ... I have just been pondering Tibby's responses and wondering how she is really fitting into all of this and if we're (maybe) blaming the wrong person for her inaction.

????


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 5122
...as a former NTM wife who never found it easy to be submissive but was always being told she needed to be ;) , I say ... good points, MrsM!

Only God sees everyone's hearts, motives, agendas, actions, and inactions in all this huge, widespread debacle.

I wonder if he's shaking his head and saying, "Oooh, boy!"

(Now I'll probably get blown to bits! LOL!)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:47 pm
Posts: 142
They are all part of the NTM Matrix. Pawns, sure. Sad.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:10 pm
Posts: 868
What is the responsibility of a Christian when manipulated by their employer to act in unkind, thoughtless, dishonest and /or callous ways?

Just for the sake of argument, let's say there was a victim of unspeakable sexual abuse who was asking for documentation of these crimes to use in a criminal prosecution of the perpetrator. The employer has this documentation, has it at hand, has reviewed and summarized it for others to share with the victim, but refuses to release it to the victim. A secretary/ functionary is so advised and tasked with communicating with the victim. What are her options?

Or, to pick a different example: A member of the organization is arrested for possession of child pornography. A spokesperson is given false information regarding this person's prior association with young people on the field and tasked with communicating with the press. What are her options?

A number of concerns come to mind: Should I do what I am asked to do? What if I refuse? Will quitting make any difference? Won't someone else just do it? What about my own family? My own reputation? All my friends are in the organization. It's a bad job market right now, and my experience is not widely needed. What kind of a person abandons a reputable Christian organization in the midst of such trouble? I am only following orders; it is the leadership's responsibility.

Oh, and then there is always the victim. I almost forgot!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:25 am
Posts: 153
Location: Canton, New York
The original email was sent to Tibby Westcott; Dan Kreider; Larry Brown; and Oli Jacobsen. Surely ONE of them could take the time to walk over to the filing cabinet anf get that file into the hands of the Philippine Authorities! It most certainly does NOT take 17 YEARS! Nor does it take a month, or a week, or even one day! It doesn't matter if Tibby is a pawn or a player that's not the point, and to say " But I want to acknowledge that it is very difficult to make right choices and sometimes it takes longer than we hoped it would." is... wow. It's been 17 years! How much time do you think they should be allowed?

It is more than obvious that NTM had no desire to release this information to anyone. An investigation by NTM was done 17 years ago. The contents of that investigation, to quote Bing Hare, CPC, "contained Les Emory's confessions about molesting 23 girls." Why should we have to even ASK for this information to be sent to the authorities to begin with? Why should we have to DEMAND that this information be released? Why should That Girl have to babysit NTM to ensure that this information does get into the hands of the authorities? Why is it going to take a Court Order to have this Information made available to the Authorities?Why should people have to even Worry about this file going missing, or documents being destroyed? This whole situation is Criminal, and it's not getting any better!

That, MrsM, is the point.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group