MK forum

Not good! My opinion - No one on here should be telling someone else what they should think or feel, except to expose the sinfulness of abuse in all its form. I have a problem with some of you telling others they are wrong in where they are in the process of facing their abuse. Everyone is at different stages. Anger, Disgruntled - aren't you using shame words to require others to be where you think you are?

Just maybe some of the most angry or disgruntled have never felt they were heard. Maybe their posts here are attempts to feel safe - yes, even in their anger, even in their retreat from God. You calling them out on here is one more attempt to slience them.

This is circular, so really isn't going anywhere. Andy pops up. Person X clubs Andy over the head as a matter of course. Person Y says Person X should not bash Andy as a matter of course. Person Z says Person Y should not tell Person X what they can feel, or think (is bashing over the head feeling or thinking?). Person A tells Person Z not to tell Person Y that they cannot tell Person X what they can feel or think because that is telling person Y was THEY can feel or think.

Well said, Thai MK!

Thai MK, you have a suggestion to make?

By the way I hate this damn reply system. I have to write my responses on openoffice then paste them to fandaeagles. Sorry got sidetracked.

What you are seeing is natural. As Interested pointed out we are all at different points in our healing and have many different wounds which are still raw. Anyone who feels called to work with trauma, and abuse survivors specifically, needs to have thick skin and understand the reactions of those with whom they work. Trauma creates doubt, skepticism, and mistrust of people, the world and God. This is actually healthy. This, call it mistrust, keeps the victim from putting themselves in harms way over and over again. It doesn't always work, but that is what it is supposed to do. This mistrust would have served Charlie Brown well if he had had it.

This fear is so deep that it leads to anger which leads us to act to protect ourselves. What we react to lets us know where our wounds are. Andy pops his head up and X whacks him. First Andy should know there is a very good chance he will get whacked when he pops his head up. X whacks him because X does not want to be suckered again by an abusive system. Z whacks X because Z is afraid of how God will perceive Z if Z doesn't defend God's anointed. Maybe Z is afraid God will reject Z even to the point of losing their salvation. A whacks Z because they are afraid what Z says will hurt others. That is what I hear Interested saying. B whacks A because B is afraid that if NTO is wrong then B's parents' lives will have meant nothing. If B's parents' lives mean nothing then B's life means nothing. All kinds of wounds being triggered all over the place. Again if our helpers do not understand this and understand that they will be attacked, then we need new helpers.

Interested isn't talking in a circle. If I understand Interested then this is what I hear. I am angry. Am I okay with you? Will you still like me? If I am angry with God will you still like me? Interested, I apologize if I am over simplifying, but I need to do that. I experience it as a peek around the corner, a slide of one inch closer, a share-check-share. It is glorious in its simplicity and complexity. Am I safe with you and in this place? That is all that the bashers really want, to be safe, but we may not be sure how to get that safety.

Again do you have a suggestion?

Just because I received such a warm reaction to my earlier comments, I will continue. There is NTM and the evil its members have perpetrated on humanity. I agree with OT, that NTM has to die. Death penalty to the organization for the crimes "it" has committed, if you will.

Former members were current members at one time. I think it would be safe to say that most of the crimes committed by NTO were committed by former members. As such, I do not recognize this distinction between former and current members with respect to assigning responsibility for what has happened.

So, we have former members, disgruntled or not, and we have current members, disgruntled or not. At some point, all current members will be former members.

Former members, treat current members as you would want current members to treat you. Break the cycle.

There, that is my recommendation.

It is 2:40 am, I should be in bed. What I got from Thai MK's post was do unto others. The rest was lost on me since I SHOULD BE IN BED. I was going to ask that it be explained again as if it were being explained to a very dense 6 year old. Brain is not working.

I remember what I was going to say. I have no idea where anyone is in their process. What that would mean to me in Andy's and Tibby's place is that I could expect to be disbelieved, my intentions questioned, to be vilified even. That is what abuse does to a person's out look.

While doing unto others is great, hurt people do what you did to me, quite often. Didn't NTO often talk about loving the unlovable. They wanted the job, or where given the job, they will have to love the deeply wounded. Set boundaries and expect people to keep trying to cross them.

As another example of tNTO's tactics, consider the following.

Tibby wrote, earlier in this forum:
I just want to apologise to you all. I was part of the decision making group to have Ms Hendrix's e-mail address run through the NTM server. Stupidly and naively, with total lack of consideration for what affect this would have on you I agreed to this. I don't know what to say except I have am terribly sorry because this foolish decision has hurt you again, needlessly and most likely hindered moving ahead with the next set of historic abuse investigations. I really am truly sorry.

We learn from her that the decision was foolish, that it was needlessly hurtful and that she had a part in it. We know from Andy that he also had a part in it. Tibby tells us that it was made with a total lack of consideration for the affect it would have on others. She opines that this decision will likely hinder further progress in the abuse investigations. Hard words, indeed, but they are hers. And, of course, she really is truly sorry.

A person with a stake in this situation replied:
So what are you going to do about it? Beside apologies.

No answer has been forthcoming from NTO. Sorry is enough, I guess. Let's move on.

Pat Hendrix, meanwhile, has reassured us that the decision Tibby feels was made stupidly and naively and with total lack of consideration for its effects on the people it is supposed to be helping seemed like a good idea to her. “Needlessly hurtful”? Hey, it was a great back up solution! Oh, and sorry for the confusion.

NTO made a decision that their own spokespeople can hardly qualify in terms strong enough. They did it without regard for the people they have previously hurt and they never said anything about it at all until some geek publicly pointed it out. But, come what may, they are going to stick with it!

But they are sorry!