[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3891)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4758: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3891)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4759: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3891)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4760: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3891)
MK forum • View topic - Picky, picky, picky: A thread for theological pedants

MK forum

Discuss anything MK here
It is currently Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:50 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:44 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:23 pm
Posts: 535


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:04 pm
Posts: 3724
:x :x


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:42 pm
Posts: 50
Hoping this question is sufficiently pedantic...

The two camps in counseling, "biblical" counseling and "Christian" counseling have been surfacing in conversation and online at places like The Wartburg Watch. Also recently I heard an Ethnos member mentioning biblical counseling as the preferred type, and they were not the first member to express this preference.

For reference, as I understand it BC approaches counseling as scripture and the Holy Spirit as the primary, if not sole means of dealing with life issues (see the ACBC 95 Thesis ). Christian counseling on the other hand, sees all truth as God's truth, and is willing to use various therapeutic approaches in counseling, so long as they are not contrary to the teaching of the bible as the counselor interprets and understands it. For example, a Christian counselor may use personality tests, EMDR, IFS, etc. in counseling, whereas a biblical counselor would not.

I wonder how prevalent the theological adherence to the exclusive sufficiency of scripture in counseling and the preference to biblical counseling over Christian are within the Ethnos organization? If it is prevalent (or nearly universal), I wonder how that bias has impacted the way in which they have interacted with those abused and the abusers. When I read the 95 thesis in light of these questions, I see some correlations.

_________________
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
"I think—I don't know—but I think I could be brave enough."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 5156
Excellent thoughts and questions, SkyeBlue.

I lived in the NTM family for almost 50 years, up until 2001, so I did observe the evolution of opinions and policies in regard to mental health concerns. (I cannot speak for what further changes may have taken place in the past 16 years.)

In the early days of the mission, I don't think the significance of mental/emotional health was understood whatsoever. In fairness, that would have been the case among the American population as a whole, not just in the mission.

Thinking back over the years, I can recall many cases where missionaries showed clear signs of deep pain and great neediness. The far-reaching effects of childhood trauma were not understood, and the mantra "God can use anyone", led the mission into accepting members who clearly suffered from PTSD, chronic depression, anger and rage, and sexual dysfunction or addiction. There were people who had mental breakdowns, psychosis, pedophilia, and there were suicides. Sometimes people in psychotic breaks were considered demon possessed, so they suffered the further trauma of attempts to cast demons out of their bodies. Others who had "nervous breakdowns" were sent home from the field feeling like failures in their fervor to serve God ... I hope they received the treatment they needed back home.

During the time I was an adult missionary, there was a wonderful doctor at the NTM Medical Center who prescribed antidepressants for many missionaries, including my husband. In spite of the fact that many mission members were secretly taking antidepressant medications, the Executive Committee issued an infuriating policy that if people needed antidepressants, they were disqualified from ministry. Thankfully that policy went away, but there continued to be a very definite stigma attached to mental health needs.

Then more changes took place, and the mission actually set up a counseling center of their own, at the medical center in Missouri. This center was staffed for a number of years by people who were trained in Christian counseling as you defined it, not in "Biblical counseling". I believe they did help many missionary families, both adults and MKs. The only criticism I would have of that counseling center is that there are cases where missionary pedophiles were removed from their fields of service and spent sometimes extended periods of time staying with their families at the training center in Camdenton, and their "transgressions" were not revealed to those living around them. This potentially put children at the center at risk, and I do not think that was appropriate at all.

The counseling center has been closed for many years, and I do not know what has taken its place, if anything. Perhaps someone who has more recently been a part of the mission can fill in that information.

I think many mission leaders have remained skeptical about therapy and counseling. NTM offered to pay for counseling for MK abuse survivors, but initially they wanted to set parameters for the kind of counselor or therapist they would pay for. I think I was told that at first they even wanted reports from the counselors, but I think that was short-lived, when they realized how unethical that requirement would be. I believe they have been paying for a fairly broad range of therapy now, but they do put a cap on the help they will give. Apparently they expect an abused MK to be all better after a certain number of sessions, or a certain amount of cost. :(

I wonder if someone currently in the mission, or recently in the mission, can tell us whether current mission policies or practices would indicate whether the the mission leaders now favor "Biblical counseling" over professional Christian counseling. If that is the case, it would be a big disappointment to people like Oren Green and Gary Lee. There is, as you point out, SkyeBlue, a big difference between Christian counseling and "Biblical counseling". I find the latter abhorrent in its premise and its methods.

http://www.familylife.com/articles/topi ... counseling

"Biblical counseling is an approach to counseling that uses the Bible to address the issues in the lives of individuals, couples, and families. The Bible teaches that our thoughts, motives, attitudes, words, and actions flow from the sinful selfishness of our hearts. Biblical counseling addresses the heart as the source of these human actions and reactions using the wisdom and approaches revealed in the Bible."

Ugh.

I am a Christian, and I do hold the Bible sacred, but I firmly repudiate this method of addressing mental health needs.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:42 pm
Posts: 50
Thanks for your historical perspective, Raz. I agree that getting the perspective of someone currently or recently in the mission would help to see what changes might have occurred with leadership and what type of counseling they are currently favoring or advising. It may be that I'm just getting one perspective from those I hang with, and would be heartened to hear that Christian counseling was if not endorsed, at least respected as a personal option by leadership.

Caps on treatment -- sad, frustrated and confused here -- because they don't have the training or experience to be able to evaluate that, and yet they are making decisions on how much an abused MK should get. Makes no sense.

One a side note, interesting that the link you found was on the Family Life website. Not surprising, though. Rainey, Mohler, Duncan, and many of their fellow council members at The Gospel Coalition are big proponents of biblical counseling, and the Coalition has had a big influence over the evangelical community for over a decade. Many of these same coalition members also stood by CJ Maheney (a former TGC member) following the revelation of the cover up of sexual abuse at Maheney's church. More about that here.

Seems like some things keep showing up together -- the cult of celebrity, patriarchy, exclusivity, institutional devotion, and abuse.

_________________
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
"I think—I don't know—but I think I could be brave enough."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5272


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:42 pm
Posts: 50

_________________
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
"I think—I don't know—but I think I could be brave enough."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 5156
Yes. So confusing for many who seek help from these faux counselors. Not helpful at all.

Grrr ... :x


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5272
Ha, reminds me of the time my father announced that he was teaching new immigrants English. When I asked him what his text book was, he replied "The Bible".

I have this image of going into a Chinese Restraunt and hearing, "Behold, and it comes to pass that I AM thy waiter, woulds't thou find eternal comfort with a side of rice, for lo it will be alway with you". :lol:


I would have thought that one of the most important characteristics for being a counseler would be empathy and compassion. Oh good grief, those are two qualities that are not often seen in CULT members!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 5156
"For lo it will be always with you."

:lol:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group