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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:26 am 
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Posts: 208
well done


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:49 am 
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Posts: 710
Bemused wrote:
Dear New Tribes Mission

In this lifetime alas
For your sins you may not have to pay
And as for the next life, I'm not sure
For certainty in that, you took away

When I was a child
Things were black and white
But then came NTM
And wrong became right

My brain was like scrambled egg
And on bad days a little fried
For even as a teenager
It was obvious you had lied

Uncle became a dirty word
Auntie wasn't that flash
For the former let his hands wander
And the latter used the lash

And even when you found out
It was me who had the sin
And I was forced to confess it
From deep deep within

I cried the years you had me
And then for the years I lost
My innocence was not yours to take
But in losing it, I paid the cost

Now it has all come out
The media has joined the feast
You can hide all you like
But you cannot kill the beast

I won't give you the satisfaction
Of ruining what I have left of life
I've taken back control
And removed from my back your bloody knife

I'm past anger and depression
On that score you haven't won
Yes I learned without NTM
Life indeed can be a lot of fun

So when and if you get to your heaven
And you look your god in the face
Remember what you did to us
At that Numonohi place

And if you don't make it to heaven
Ponder this as you sense a burning smell
I, for one won't be joining you
For you've made me serve my time in Hell


The more I read on this site, the more I think this really sums it up. It's hauntingly true.


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:32 pm
Posts: 2328
Bemused wrote:
Dear New Tribes Mission

In this lifetime alas
For your sins you may not have to pay
And as for the next life, I'm not sure
For certainty in that, you took away

When I was a child
Things were black and white
But then came NTM
And wrong became right

My brain was like scrambled egg
And on bad days a little fried
For even as a teenager
It was obvious you had lied

Uncle became a dirty word
Auntie wasn't that flash
For the former let his hands wander
And the latter used the lash

And even when you found out
It was me who had the sin
And I was forced to confess it
From deep deep within

I cried the years you had me
And then for the years I lost
My innocence was not yours to take
But in losing it, I paid the cost

Now it has all come out
The media has joined the feast
You can hide all you like
But you cannot kill the beast

I won't give you the satisfaction
Of ruining what I have left of life
I've taken back control
And removed from my back your bloody knife

I'm past anger and depression
On that score you haven't won
Yes I learned without NTM
Life indeed can be a lot of fun

So when and if you get to your heaven
And you look your god in the face
Remember what you did to us
At that Numonohi place

And if you don't make it to heaven
Ponder this as you sense a burning smell
I, for one won't be joining you
For you've made me serve my time in Hell


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5218
I'd forgotten about this poem, thanks for bringing it up again.

This story is breaking down here:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/71532608/sex-offender-graham-capills-cancelled-church-talk-splits-taranaki-community

The background is that the offender was a real hell fire and brimstone preacher and became the leader of the Christian political party (we have a multi party system with proportional representation, so small parties can get into government in a coalition arrangement). He has served his time and is on parole.

I wonder what others think about him being invited to speak at a church:

1). Is it right?
2) Would you go to hear him or someone in his position?
3) If this situation occurred at your church, what would you ask in the question time?
3b) Would it be to painful to attend?

I've got my own opinions, but thought I'd throw it out there for others to offer their views first.


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:32 pm
Posts: 2328
Bemused wrote:
I'd forgotten about this poem, thanks for bringing it up again.

This story is breaking down here:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/71532608/sex-offender-graham-capills-cancelled-church-talk-splits-taranaki-community

The background is that the offender was a real hell fire and brimstone preacher and became the leader of the Christian political party (we have a multi party system with proportional representation, so small parties can get into government in a coalition arrangement). He has served his time and is on parole.

I wonder what others think about him being invited to speak at a church:

1). Is it right?
2) Would you go to hear him or someone in his position?
3) If this situation occurred at your church, what would you ask in the question time?
3b) Would it be to painful to attend?

I've got my own opinions, but thought I'd throw it out there for others to offer their views first.

The thoughtful questions should generate thoughtful answers, but I keep coming back to what the victims and the parents of the three victims must feel, and then, whatever trace of logic/reason that might be floating in my head leaves me quickly.

But here's an attempt:
1) No. I have no evidence the victims/families agree with this meeting. To me, the church members could be meeting in a church, at a gay bar, at a fish market or online to hear the pedophile with the story of restoration. It is still insulting to the families and the victims, whether they live in the same town or on the other side of the planet.
2) No.
3) Are you required to wear a device which allows authorities to track you? What is your address? How far are you allowed to travel from that address? Have you compensated your victims? When was the last time you thought about molesting a child? How often are you required to meet with law enforcement? Why are churches and missionaries and mission boards so prone to persecute victims and their families (including through silence and neglect) while sheltering pedophiles? Have you been offered a job doing maintenance at a boarding school?
3b) No


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:18 pm 
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Posts: 3638
Well, good for them for canceling!
The article tells the truth about what this guy did.
Too bad it doesn't mention what org. he was with.
Did your dad read this article?
Does he still not believe what happened?


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Posts: 3638
Oh!
He isn't the one you have written about before?
Or is he?


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:20 pm 
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Open mouth/ insert foot? :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:46 pm 
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mosquito bite wrote:
Well, good for them for canceling!
The article tells the truth about what this guy did.
Too bad it doesn't mention what org. he was with.
Did your dad read this article?
Does he still not believe what happened?


In an ironic twist, my parents attended the same church as this Graham (not to be confused with NTM's Graham who went to jail). They spoke of his powerful preaching, but when he went to jail it was never mentioned again.
And the answer to your last question is NO, NO, NO and woe betide anyone who dares talk about abuse and NTM in the same sentence.

Mrs Bemused commented last night, when we were discussing this "how is it your parents had so many paedophiles who were friends, yet my parents had none?".
It is the one question I would like to ask the man this article is about, "why do so many high profile religious men become paedophiles?" When one reads the media stories down here, case after case are the same, religious men going to jail for sex offences against children. Why?


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 Post subject: Re: Poetic Justice
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Demostenes Dalai Mud Lama wrote:
Bemused wrote:
I'd forgotten about this poem, thanks for bringing it up again.

This story is breaking down here:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/71532608/sex-offender-graham-capills-cancelled-church-talk-splits-taranaki-community

The background is that the offender was a real hell fire and brimstone preacher and became the leader of the Christian political party (we have a multi party system with proportional representation, so small parties can get into government in a coalition arrangement). He has served his time and is on parole.

I wonder what others think about him being invited to speak at a church:

1). Is it right?
2) Would you go to hear him or someone in his position?
3) If this situation occurred at your church, what would you ask in the question time?
3b) Would it be to painful to attend?

I've got my own opinions, but thought I'd throw it out there for others to offer their views first.

The thoughtful questions should generate thoughtful answers, but I keep coming back to what the victims and the parents of the three victims must feel, and then, whatever trace of logic/reason that might be floating in my head leaves me quickly.

But here's an attempt:
1) No. I have no evidence the victims/families agree with this meeting. To me, the church members could be meeting in a church, at a gay bar, at a fish market or online to hear the pedophile with the story of restoration. It is still insulting to the families and the victims, whether they live in the same town or on the other side of the planet.
2) No.
3) Are you required to wear a device which allows authorities to track you? What is your address? How far are you allowed to travel from that address? Have you compensated your victims? When was the last time you thought about molesting a child? How often are you required to meet with law enforcement? Why are churches and missionaries and mission boards so prone to persecute victims and their families (including through silence and neglect) while sheltering pedophiles? Have you been offered a job doing maintenance at a boarding school?
3b) No


Thanks for taking the time to discuss this. I've mixed feeling on this issue (hence putting it up for others wisdom)

1) I'm uncomfortable with it. I'm not sure if it is "wrong", but probably lacks ethical value. If the group who provided the invite were convinced they were doing the right thing, why did they try to keep it a secret, that probably gives some insight into public sentiment.
2) Actually I would go and hear him speak.
3) I'd like to ask him publically why he did it and what has he done for his victims. I'd also (if I could find the courage) put my story on the line.
4) Yes it would be uncomfortable to attend (well going to any church is uncomfortable, but this would be worse me thinks). But I'm not unaccustomed to being uncomfortable these days.
But I wouldn't be putting anything in the collection plate to cover expenses!

Again, many thanks for your insight, much appreciated.


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