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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:21 pm 
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Paul Syson wrote:
OK, I realize I'm possibly very unique on this site because I tend to live my life asking questions when I'm uncertain and facing off with those I disagree with.

So I'm curious, and if it isn't totally unacceptable I would like to conduct a little poll here, if I can...

#1 are you male or female (that isn't a yes/no question :lol: )
#2 are you an MK?
As an adult,
#3 do you instinctively fear authority,
#4 when something goes wrong, do you assume it is your fault,
#5 do you see yourself ( this is how you know yourself to be, not just as others perceive you to be) as a people-pleaser, well balanced, or brusque.

I’m pondering these, of course, in the setting of the unnatural environment of boarding schools. Of course it might also fit those who are from legalistic and/or authoritarian home environments. Are there any other settings in which you have seen this occurring?

I'd love to hear your responses, if you are willing.


O.k. But what will happen if a response really rocks your world?


What if someone said, "sure I'm an MK, I hated it, it ruined my life. I am suicidal most days, drink myself into a stupor to forget it all, have been divorced and am now living with my same sex partner. I take drugs to get me through the pain. My father is just another NTM bastard and my mother is a broken woman. My siblings are constantly in therapy. And the people who abused me are X, Y and Z. X is dead, Y can't be found but Z is still in NTM and no one gives a flying @%#$ about what he did"

Because all of the above is a reality in part to some of us.

So what next, how does one respond?


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:59 pm 
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I think we know how most Tribers would respond.

I think that may be why none of us wanted to participate in the poll.

:?


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:17 pm 
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O.K. then lets turn the tables:

Poll for current NTM members and ex members who still believe in the ideals of NTM:

1) Do you believe that the reports of abuse are exaggerated or lies.

2) Do you believe NTM leadership is handling the reports of abuse appropriately.

3) Are you actively involved in helping the victims of abuse, especially those MKs who you knew.

4) Do you even care.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:55 pm 
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#1 NO
#2 Certainly no the way I would like it to be handled
#3 YES
#4 YES

Thank you, Aussie, for your earlier response.
Aussie wrote:
O.k. But what will happen if a response really rocks your world?What if someone said, "sure I'm an MK, I hated it, it ruined my life. I am suicidal most days, drink myself into a stupor to forget it all, have been divorced and am now living with my same sex partner. I take drugs to get me through the pain. My father is just another NTM bastard and my mother is a broken woman. My siblings are constantly in therapy. And the people who abused me are X, Y and Z. X is dead, Y can't be found but Z is still in NTM and no one gives a flying @%#$ about what he did" Because all of the above is a reality in part to some of us. So what next, how does one respond?

Your words don't rock my world because they don't surprise me. I have nothing to say to that because I can't find words sufficient to express the grief. "Sad" and "empty" are accurate, but so shallow. :cry:

Thank you, though, for expressing the way you did. Although I am a bit familiar with the consequences of abuse, you all are teaching me in a manner that nothing else could. I have expressed myself rather boldly on this forum, but in many ways I have been as one who hurts for you, but is honestly clueless about hurting with you. Please forgive this poor, faltering student. I already knew the depths of depravity of the human heart; I am learning the scope of the resilience of human courage.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 9:33 pm 
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Put your helmet on, do up your seatbelt, take out a good life insurance policy and prepare for the wildest roller coaster ride you will ever experience. You will go from the depths of seeing human depravity, to the exhilaration of seeing some set free and every lump, bump and emotion inbetween.

And if at the end of the ride, at whatever point you tumble off, if you hug your kids and vow that no one will ever do to them what you have seen on the roller coaster of Fanda Eagles and if they even so much as dare to try that you will deal with them so severely, then the whole world will know that you are a real man who loves his family.
If you can take what you learn and do it for a friends kids and show your friend what you have learnt, then the world will know you have a voice.
But if you go beyond the call of duty and do it for a strangers kids, no matter what your faith, or colour, or income, or occupation e.t.c., then some day in a little corner of the world you may not have even heard of, a child might pray and thank their God that someone somewhere made the world a better place for kids like them.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 10:19 am 
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Aussie wrote:
O.K. then lets turn the tables:

Poll for current NTM members and ex members who still believe in the ideals of NTM:

1) Do you believe that the reports of abuse are exaggerated or lies.

2) Do you believe NTM leadership is handling the reports of abuse appropriately.

3) Are you actively involved in helping the victims of abuse, especially those MKs who you knew.

4) Do you even care.


Very Good points Aussie. The actions of NTM members past and present speak louder than words and give the responses to the above poll questions.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Aussie wrote:
O.K. then lets turn the tables:

Poll for current NTM members and ex members who still believe in the ideals of NTM:

1) Do you believe that the reports of abuse are exaggerated or lies.

2) Do you believe NTM leadership is handling the reports of abuse appropriately.

3) Are you actively involved in helping the victims of abuse, especially those MKs who you knew.

4) Do you even care.


Paul Syson wrote:
#1 NO
#2 Certainly no the way I would like it to be handled
#3 YES
#4 YES



Thank you Paul, for expressing a genuine desire to learn. You remind me of myself, years ago, when I first joined the MK Safety Net message board, which in those days was similar to these Fanda Eagles forums. It was scary opening my heart up to be taught by MK abuse survivors .... they sometimes wrote things that really made me wince. But those brave survivors changed my perspective -- and my life -- permanently.

As one who spent around 50 years in Triberland, may I gently point out what strikes me about your answers to Aussie's questions.

1) Do you believe that the reports of abuse are exaggerated or lies.
#1 NO

2) Do you believe NTM leadership is handling the reports of abuse appropriately.
#2 Certainly not the way I would like it to be handled

3) Are you actively involved in helping the victims of abuse, especially those MKs who you knew.
#3 YES

4) Do you even care.
#4 YES

What I notice is that you can emphatically state that you believe, you care, and you are involved. But when it comes to emphatically stating NO, you do not believe NTM leadership is handling the reports of abuse appropriately, it is different.

Why does Psalm 105:15 spring to my mind? "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm." I think because of the sermons in which I heard this verse used to caution me against ever coming out and saying, "NO. Leadership is wrong!" I just couldn't make myself do it.

Just something to think about, if you can.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:05 pm 
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Aussie wrote:
O.K. then lets turn the tables:

Poll for current NTM members and ex members who still believe in the ideals of NTM:

1) Do you believe that the reports of abuse are exaggerated or lies.

2) Do you believe NTM leadership is handling the reports of abuse appropriately.

3) Are you actively involved in helping the victims of abuse, especially those MKs who you knew.

4) Do you even care.



Perhaps I could be permitted to answer this on behalf of a "former" relative, who wrote and spoke the answers in monologues of PM.

1) There was little abuse, reports of it are mass hysteria whipped up by a bitter few.

2) This question doesn't need to be answered because of 1).

3) It is none of my concern. (direct quote when confronted with the evidence that the neighbour was jailed for sex offending).

4) "It is none of my concern"



Or perhaps this response from an NTM rep.

1) No answer.

2) NTM handled the abuse matter appropriately.

3) No answer.

4) No answer.


Aussie wrote:

Quote:
O.k. But what will happen if a response really rocks your world? What if someone said, "sure I'm an MK, I hated it, it ruined my life. I am suicidal most days, drink myself into a stupor to forget it all, have been divorced and am now living with my same sex partner. I take drugs to get me through the pain. My father is just another NTM bastard and my mother is a broken woman. My siblings are constantly in therapy. And the people who abused me are X, Y and Z. X is dead, Y can't be found but Z is still in NTM and no one gives a flying @%#$ about what he did" Because all of the above is a reality in part to some of us. So what next, how does one respond?


My question is, why has Z not been dealt with properly. Z is a criminal! Y should be hunted down and at the least shamed in front of his church and the authorities notified (because we all know that few paedophiles change their spots, only their locations). As for X, I have mixed feelings about disturbing the dead, so I will uncharacteristically leave that in the too hard basket.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:15 pm 
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Raz, I think I have been pretty clear in past posts that I don't put leaders on pedestals. They can fall, they do fall, and some (in my opinion) are living fallen. When I first began my post it read NO NO YES YES. And then I went back and changed it. Why? Because these issues are so complicated that a simple Yes or No cannot be the final answer. You know that from having to discipline your children in the past. If you always take one child's perspective as totally accurate, you will ultimately lose the confidence of the other(s). There is almost always the need to sort out the events and effects, and determine consequences and extents of liability.

Someone told me recently that both NTM and the survivors are pretty well entrenched, and I think that was a very accurate statement. Nobody here has dared to suggest that Gary Earl might actually have been speaking truth when he wrote that apology letter because it is just too far outside the trench. And nobody on here seems to think that NTM can or will ever change for the same reason.

I am being taught by MK abuse survivors, but I won't blindly accept everything that is being proclaimed. And so I stand by my answer. I will not paint individuals at NTM with the same brush any more than I will do so for the survivors on this site.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:38 pm 
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The beauty of this forum is that we can speak about our diverse experiences and backgrounds that formulate our positions and ideas. The fact that we can have discussions, rants, tears, joy, frustration is a good thing. If we all agreed, this would quickly become a boring site, or like facebook where one is subjected to the edited highlights of other people lives and wondering why ones own is not that exciting (note to anyone not aware, Bemused is not a fan of Facebook :P )

Hard questions have been asked and Paul to his credit has kindly offered his opinions/answers. For me that is a breath of fresh air, because I'm used to getting no reply to questions.
I'm sure much of the opinions I express on here raises a few eyebrows at times, but I have been graciously accepted as being a part of the solution, despite my strange way of looking at the world.

We are free to speak our minds, to tell our stories, to offer divergent points of view. In much of the world that is a luxury that does not exist. And although we may disagree with each other as we find our way through our individual journeys, we are still very fortunate to have the freedom to disagree and not be afraid to do so.


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