MK forum

Very chilling words, LK . . .beyond brutal.

One of the things I loathe, is when one person physically overpowers the other. I remember all of the men in my family demonstrating their strength to us on and off . . .holding arms down, tickling, squeezing.

In working with children with disabilities, it's so important to NOT do that. Disagree, be authoritative, stand your ground, but if at all possible, don't trap them, or make them afraid of your touch.

Beyond brutal. Wish I could take that away from you.

I remember my father being amazed at the amount of swats that some of his colleagues gave their children when we arrived in PNG. To his credit he did not follow suit.

Much of it was sadistic, like Louie the dorm parent who bragged about offering a child a choice of punishment and then giving them the option they didn't want. Why he would tell another child his strange method was beyond me, but then much of what I saw was beyond me.

I should clarify, that for my modern child of the 2010s, someone (especially other than her parent - although, we don't choose to spank except for absolute disobedience in extreme danger, like crossing a road when we said no - I don't believe this child has ever had one) paddling her or slapping her would be physical abuse in my definition. And I think the majority of modern America would agree with me.

However, the spankings and paddlings I received in the 70s and 80s were culturally acceptable and even encouraged. I'm uncomfortable with saying they were okay, and I'll stop short of that. But I understand they were a part of the Christian culture then. My father never believed in leaving bruises, so to me, physical abuse during the 70s and 80s includes spankings that left bruises, but does not include normal spanking.

Is that too permissive? What do you define physical abuse as?

"Is that too permissive?"

A very deep subject with the usual discussions about a child running out in the street and such.

Laying all that aside, I feel about the way you stated, though I rarely every spanked my children. Think my oldest got about 2 spankings total (and didn't need those). Used the 3 swat rule from school. Going through what I went through, my DS and I decided for the most part we didn't need to spank and hardly ever spanked again. Had a rule of never spanking when angry.

Just of note:

Courts have ruled parents have the right to spank there children. January 2014

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts ... k-daughter

Perhaps someone can unearth the classic Dare to Discipline from James Dobson? Wasn't that the gold standard?

We would often would hear that "you have to break the will." A rebellious child would get treated much more harshly than one who made a mistake.

" They need to learn a lesson, they'll NEVER forget."

Overpowering and control, force and intimidation, I despise them all.

But in the spirit of fairness, we only raised one child, a girl who was and is content. So I've always backed away from giving parenting advice.

How about a current NTMer giving a four year old a bare ass spanking in Language School with a ping pong paddle - in excess of 20 whacks with the paddle until it broke and then a continuation with the hand. For the crime of jumping off a small table in the toddlers room. Is that "physical abuse"? It sure felt like it.

As a mandated reporter, I would call Children and Youth Protective Services if I saw that . . .

RAGE van be a very scary emotion to have as well as receive. I speak this not from experience. My personality is different that way--and was socially and morally conditioned to not go beyond irritation. I may get angry now, but not in a rage. I'm not proud of it, because I was also conditioned to not be too happy, too proud, too in love, too anything.

My husband remembers well the over-powering feel of rage, how out of control and awful he felt. He was not born to be a farmer, and having to herd cows with patience was beyond him as a teen. He once blinded a cow accidentally with a pitchfork! And fights with kids at school. What he remembers most is the terrible feel of rage, for him.

Many of us might have terrible memories about this. Lori's story is so poignant, because it's so very real.

It might be good to talk about it with someone. To make amends, if need be.

Or stage a faux fight with a scarecrow named Earl, and let it all out.

Good thoughts on corporal punishment. I am 63, which takes me back to the "old days", in which I was the recipient of parental spankings, and later on the bestower. I feel very ashamed of this.

I have said this before, and this is how I view the pain I inflicted on my little ones' backsides in an effort to "break their will" a la James Dobson:

"If it is wrong now, it was wrong then."

And that's what I think about that.