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 Post subject: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:53 am
Posts: 7
Most of you know who I am ...now that I stuck my neck out and got it chopped several times. Since what I said, crossed the line of what is acceptable and welcomed by the community of contributors here on this forum. This is no longer a place for those abused within NTM to share their story.... it shifted away from that many weeks ago....
It is now a safe haven for those who want to vent and spew hatred all under the name of finding justice. It is now a social club only open and welcomed to those who have the same level of discontent, mistrust and disrespect for NTM. You have lost your chance to hear from those who are abused, but not sure how to sort it all out yet. They know they were hurt but they aren't ready to blame anyone (because a victim always blames themselves first).
You will never find their postings on these forums. The air is too thick here with hatred for that.
There are many people out there who will never post, because there is not room on these forums for differing views or opinions.
After all, most of you have all made your mind up anyways...
But it wouldn't be about trying to change your mind --- it'd be about having another perspective.
But even that won't be happening here. The atmosphere won't allow for it ....
The people who aren't posting on here, but are still watching and reading updates and trying to sort through the mess and noise that's taken over -- are still trying to hear the victim's stories and mourn with them... but even their stories are getting lost amongst the noise and chaos that's taken over.
The focus has shifted and now this forum is for those who hate NTM. Maybe the name should be changed. You now, maybe you'll get more people to post... your social club might gain a few members, since they wouldn't want to disrespect the victims and talk about their own agendas in a place that's supposed to be a safe-haven for the victims....they would then have their own place and they could speak their minds without silencing the victims...once again.
I don't know.... it's just a suggestion


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:28 pm
Posts: 27
Hi MKFalcon,
I fear there is probably no point reaching out to you and asking you to keep sharing your opinions. Your post seems very defensive and full of anger and frustration, which is kind of ironic considering you are accusing everyone here of spewing hatred. Very strong words and completely unwarranted. Regardless, I feel for you and hope you stick around.

I just want to point something out. You said "Since what I said crossed the line of what is acceptable and welcomed by the community of contributors here on this forum." I just don't think that is the case - on the one thread I have seen you post on, "NTM MKs who are current members," these are just SOME of the responses to your posts:

Gene Long And, regardless of how one shakes it, I'm very happy MKFalcon has found her voice and joined in.

Mrs M I think MKFalcon raises some good points to consider, though I don't personally agree with the philosophy of the post.

Lara Again, MKFalcon, I am not here to offend. I want to understand. If I have offended anyone, it has not been my intent and I apologize.

Raz Thank you, MK Falcon, for having the courage to share your heart.

I don't know what you expected from posting on this forum, but to say that there is not room for differing opinions is just ridiculous - read the threads. I think you will find that your post, this very one, is one of the harshest and most judgmental you will find on these forums, as almost everyone seems to be trying very hard to communicate their stories and argue their points with grace and acceptance. And the air is not "thick with hatred" - If you look closely, you really will not find many who "hate NTM," as you say - to me it seems that most of the posts really, really want to SAVE NTM and have it stand as an institution that values and protects its MKs.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:34 pm
Posts: 75
I have some of the same fears, MKFalcon. To me it seems that there is a rhythm to this forum. A new narrative comes forth and we focus around in support. But then just talk happens . . .some of us weren't allowed to talk as children and now can't stop . . .me included! Yes, it is possible that we are alienating those that need us the most. I'm sorry. We will take whoever posts, in the place that they are now, on this difficult grown-up journey. We need your perspective, MKFalcon. Please continue on . . .and those of you who have a tale to tell which shudders inside of you, please know that this IS a safe place.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:39 am
Posts: 2
I have been reading along undetected up until now. But I decided to register & share my voice because I AGREE with MKFalcon. Maybe she is being a bit defensive but in HER defense, this forum DOES seem like a NTM haters club! And although a few comments were made to the effect of "thank you for sharing your view MKFalcon", the majority of them were not supportive at all.
This really isn't about MKFalcon at all though. Her point, which I agree with, is that blame seems to be pointed squarely on NTM as an organization & it seems this whole thing has gotten sidetracked from where it should be. Blame could be assigned to parents in part (like she mentioned), it could be assigned to dorm parents, teachers...Heck! even other kids that knew & didn't come forward to protect their peers! Why not! As long as we're throwing blame around at everyone!
The truth is that the people to BLAME are the people who DID these awful things. And as much as we want to judge & hate on everyone, this is NOT very Christlike behavior. It certainly is human nature though.
I think it's wonderful to support the individuals & families that were hurt but in doing so we don't need to tear down everyone else...it's really not our place. God will be the judge.
And as far as NTM goes, I'm not saying that their wasn't failure on the part of multiple individuals. But again, let's not get off track here. Are we really gonna throw out the baby with the bath water?! NTM as an organization is still made up of MEN & WOMEN. Men & women who are HUMAN & SINNERS! But that doesn't mean that NTM as an organization is evil or bad. They have been greatly used by God all around the world to bring the gospel to unreached tribes.
Why are we letting Satan use these horrible atrocities, committed by sinful individuals, to tarnish the mission of an organization as a whole & diminish it's capability to do good work... God's work??
Satan loves dissension & discord & he's definitely got it here....


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:44 am
Posts: 266
verily wrote:
If you look closely, you really will not find many who "hate NTM," as you say - to me it seems that most of the posts really, really want to SAVE NTM and have it stand as an institution that values and protects its MKs.

To this I would like to agree. I am saddened to see NTM in such a position and to learn of the sin within. My sincerest hope is that they (the organization and those responsible) would be transformed in Christ by the renewing of their minds.

I have no bone to pick with NTM, as I said before. I've held it in very high regard most of my teen and adult life. It is sad for me.

MK Falcon, I hear your hurt and for that I am sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:52 am
Posts: 8
re: this is no longer the place for those abused in NTM to share their story

I'd like to know why this person can make such a statement. There's not a day that goes by that I don't read about a person abused within NTM sharing their story for the first time. It's easy to place a charge out there. If the accusation is that "dad who gets it" is a 33rd level mason, how do I prove that it's not true since it is not? It's almost impossible for me to disprove it. If the charge against me is that I don't financially support the church that I attend, I can provide a tax record to prove what I gave. The true reality is that this is going to continue to be a place of refuge to more and more of the NTM abused. The proof is there if you read the updates on a regular basis. Can you acknowledge it too Falcon?


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:34 pm
Posts: 75
I have to say though, that this should also be a safe place for those who are out of their heads upset with NTM. So many of us can't talk like this -- our friends have no idea what a mission board is, our spouses never did get the whole MK thing, and maybe church isn't a safe place either. But what happened to our brothers and sisters on the field does cause us deep anguish and pain. It's hard to explain the deep, deep connections that we feel with each other . . .I guess it was the lack of distractions, and the sheer volume of time we spent together. I find that I'm fiercely loyal as an adult (leaving a job causes anguish) . . .for those of you that have been fiercely loyal to NTM, this must be really tough. I believe that NTM will come through this, a much better mission--but only if we keep pushing for justice for the victims, and a rock solid forum of safety for their MK's. Thanks for all the posts . . .


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:06 am
Posts: 223
I can see why some people might conclude that this has turned into a "bash fest" on NTM. There is an awful lot of anger out there, and certainly merited, I might add, especially when you come to realize that these incidents of abuse (and subsequent cover-ups) were not isolated incidents at all, but worldwide, perpetrated by a system that has failed severely to protect the children.

When reading the posts, it is important to keep in mind that when people are faced with the truth, via the testimonies of the victims, part of the process of coming to grips with what has occurred is trying to figure out who is to blame. Anger is a natural, expected even, part of grief! Let's not be too anxious to shut down the anger, folks!

The flip side to the "bashing" you hear is a secondary focus of this forum--to shed light on the injustice, the lack of accountability, the inactivity of the parties that should have/could have stopped the abuse way back when. The lack of communication, repentance and accountability TODAY is what angers most of us the most! What was once this nebulous probably is now this glaring certainty-- students in NT schools were abused and NT did not do what it needed to do to protect them, even when confronted with the truth. In shedding light on these failures, we hope to nudge the leaders of this organization towards a Biblical response to abuse. So far, they are not so good in that department!

So, as you wade through the angry remarks, don't lose sight of the end goal, friends! If we lose sight of that, this is a fight we should never have started!!


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:49 am 
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@MK4Life Your post just discouraged me more than I can say. It's words like yours that make me distrust that anything within the organization of NTM has changed. Accusing people you don't know of "unChristlike behavior" - I guess you're not thinking of the Christ who ran through the temple turning over tables because of his anger at self-righteous religious leaders, eh? Your spouting of "christian" jargon is meaningless in this context and pretty much demeans and takes away the legitimacy of the pain experienced by all who were genuinely abused by New Tribes over the years. I am not even going to touch your implied accusation that by trying to hold New Tribes accountable we are helping Satan. I mean SERIOUSLY...this is the exact kind of theology that we were told as children at NTM schools - shut up, don't make any waves or you will be ruining God's work. Apparently what they are teaching you guys in NTM training hasn't changed a bit.

How can people still not get it? Have they not read the documentation on the website, documentation that came directly from the files at Sanford? Yes, it was people who made the decisions, but people with the mandate and authority of the mission behind them. It was the organization of New Tribes Mission who did nothing when abuse was reported to them at their schools over and over and over again. That's a CRIMINAL offense, not just a stupid and irresponsible choice, people. It was the organization of New Tribes Mission that chose to quietly dismiss the abusers to continue with their pedophilia with no repercussions and didn't even warn the parents of other children who were potential victims, and it was the organization of New Tribes Mission that covered up the plethora of reports and destroyed documents in attempts to keep it all hidden.

Not only do we have a right to be angry at NTM, I think that we MUST be angry at NTM. We MUST detest this kind of behavior by an organization acting internationally in the name of Christ and hold them accountable for their actions - it's the only way to make sure that these evils do not happen again in the future. If they face this and embrace change and move through it with a spirit of repentance and transparency, think of the impact that could make on people all around the world. Think of the stories their protected, valued MKs could tell.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:05 pm 
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@verily
It's confusing to me as to why you are being so judgemental of my post. You are accusing me of "Accusing people you don't know of "unChristlike behavior". No, I don't know the people on this forum that are being hateful. I don't equate their behavior with Christ's righteous anger in the temple either. Nor am I saying that I don't understand how hate is formed in light of all the atrocities that have taken place but regardless, it's still not Christlike.

I'm also not sure what "christian jargon" I've "spouted" that in your words is "meaningless & demeaning & takes away the legitimacy of the pain experienced." PLEASE!? Are you serious? Did you actually read my post?! I did none of what you are accusing me of & I wrote it exactly for the type of post you responded with!

We have gotten so far off track from what this forum was supposed to be about! People who were hurt by people, having a safe place to come forward & find others who were also hurt & to find people who would listen & support them & help them grieve & process & move forward. This is supposed to be a place of healing. It doesn't seem like that's what it is anymore.

I was born while my parents were just beginning their training & went to the field when I was 2. I lived my whole life there. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I had a wonderful experience, even DESPITE the physical & emotional abuse I PERSONALLY suffered at the hands of my dorm parents. One of my siblings was also sexually abused and she is still with the mission today because it's not about her abuser & the organization that he was a part of or that we were a part of, it's about what God is capable of doing through people who are willing to be used.

You've even gone so far as to accuse me of implying that those who would try to hold NTM accountable are helping Satan?!! What? Again, this type of response is exactly what I was referring to in my original post. I said nothing of the sort. You are reading into my post & judging me... putting words in my mouth & then attacking me for things I never said, things I do NOT think & things that are not even true! I completely understand how the victims would be looking for someone to blame... as hurt-n-hopeful said... blame is part of the healing process. As is anger. I understand it, but it doesn't make it right for us to jump on the bandwagon & begin contributing to a giant hate-fest! In my opinion, when we join into that process we only prolong the healing on the part of the victims. In my personal walk with God I have learned that only forgiveness frees me from the binds to my abusers. The more people encourage me to be angry, the more angry I feel and the more justified I feel in being that way. BUT, the more people encourage me to talk it out, to trust God & YES, to FORGIVE, the more I move away from being filled with hatred that consumes me from within & only binds me more to the past & the people who have hurt me the most deeply. And yes, Satan DOES love discord & dissension, as I said before. He will use any & every measure, like a sheep in wolf's clothing, to divide & conquer. If he can get us sidetracked & filled with rage then we are of no use to each other or to God. We are consumed. I don't think this is really what any of us wants?!

Lastly, I also do not agree with your implication that my post encourages people to "shut up, don't make waves or you'll be ruining God's work." I absolutely do NOT think that in any way. Nor did I say that. Again, you are totally twisting my words. I do think people should be speaking out, just not in the way that many have been. The "mob mentality" easily takes over when people are passionate about something & things can get very off track from where they started. I think the idea of this forum started as a place of sharing & healing & encouragement & my observation is simply that it doesn't feel that way any more. That's not to say that there isn't a lot of very encouraging posts but the majority seem to be shifting in another direction.

One final note, you also assumed that I am in NTM training with your statement "Apparently what they are teaching you guys in NTM training hasn't changed a bit." When in fact, I have never been apart of the mission aside from my 18 years under my parent's roof.

So, the next time someone posts something you don't agree with, maybe take a step back first & evaluate whether what you have to say is necessary or true before you reply. Then you won't be judging while you are accusing them of being judgmental.


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