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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:34 am 
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The next bigger more important project?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:01 am 
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Yeah. Maybe the next project is expanding the NTM Homes retirement facility for all the good folks who are going to be "required to retire" in coming months??

Even if they beat a child half to death, if they donate $2,500 to the MK Fund, NTM will make room for them in NTM Homes.

And I am not making that up.


March 12, 2014 - Notice of Action from New Tribes Mission re. Gary Earl

As a result of the findings of Pii NTM USA has done the following:

-Gary was required to retire.
-Gary was to stop all active service with NTM immediately. Sometimes when a member of NTM retires they continue to serve or volunteer. This is not an option for Gary.
-Gary is not to represent NTM in any formal or informal way.
-Gary’s sending church has been communicated with regarding the outcome by me personally, both written and verbal. This communication is ongoing.
-At the time that we spoke to Gary regarding these parameters for retirement, should he have decided to move into the NTM Homes he would have been required to pay $2500.00 to the MK Fund in addition to the other fees that are required to do so.
-Gary is still subject to the outcome and recommendations of the Papua New Guinea review should new information be found.

Brian Coombs
Director of Personnel
NTM USA


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:06 am 
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ntm must have a secret escape button
that no one else can find
because they get away
every time


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:08 am 
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I am not "submitting" my comments
I am presenting them
on FE
and I can say whatever
I want to.
That is different.
The button can be called
whatever it wants to
be called.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:09 am 
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:D :D
One way to look at it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:38 am 
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So $2500 is the price one pays to beat a child? Or is that $2500 no matter how many children you abuse and what sort of abuse you do?

The price should be an orange suit, like Scott Kennell wears!!!!!!!!! The price should be the rest of your life thinking about what you did and regretting it!!!!!!!!!! The price should be only seeing your family on visiting days!!!!!!

Because that is the price some of us have paid for the abuse we have suffered. We will wear the suit of alcoholism or drug abuse or rejection for the rest of our lives. We will think about it every day, even though we desperately try not to. And there will be no family on visiting days, because there is no family!!!!!!

If I could pay $2500 to make this all go away and have a life that didn't have to suffer the consequences of being abused every day of my life, I would gladly pay it.

But life doesn't work that way in the real world!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:52 pm 
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Thanks for your reality post, Aussie.
Wakey, Wakey, People!
Of course, those who need to wake up
Are probably not here-----


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:16 am 
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Gene Long wrote:
New Tribes Mission seeks to base their decisions on the Bible, especially when it comes to making disciplinary decisions about their members. Here is an excerpt from one of their internal emails: "We are deeply saddened by abuse that happened to our MKs and seek to provide appropriate responses to them. We also have an obligation to make discipline determinations for our members. We seek to do both based on the foundation of scripture." [My emphasis]

This sounds noble enough. Anyone care to jump in here and offer any suggestions on WHICH Scriptures were formed the foundation for their decision not to dismiss Gary Earl for his violent acts against children?


Could it be what Cain said to God "Am I my brothers keeper"?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:26 am 
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Aussie wrote:
So $2500 is the price one pays to beat a child? Or is that $2500 no matter how many children you abuse and what sort of abuse you do?

The price should be an orange suit, like Scott Kennell wears!!!!!!!!! The price should be the rest of your life thinking about what you did and regretting it!!!!!!!!!! The price should be only seeing your family on visiting days!!!!!!

Because that is the price some of us have paid for the abuse we have suffered. We will wear the suit of alcoholism or drug abuse or rejection for the rest of our lives. We will think about it every day, even though we desperately try not to. And there will be no family on visiting days, because there is no family!!!!!!

If I could pay $2500 to make this all go away and have a life that didn't have to suffer the consequences of being abused every day of my life, I would gladly pay it.

But life doesn't work that way in the real world!!!!!!!!!!!!


Only worth $2500? What would that buy, not much?
I'd pay $2500 to trade in my NTM past for something a bit more "normal" too.

$2500 per beat, per slap, per . . . . donated to a charity of the victims choosing, that's how it should have been done. Not into a fund that NTM controls to give to whom they decide qualifies.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Demostenes Dalai Mud Lama wrote:
Gene Long wrote:
It is always easier to ask questions than to answer them! And, as answers are attempted, it will be easy to brush them off with, "Well, that's what was meant." I lightheartedly titled this thread "Picky, picky, picky: A thread for theological pedants" because I hope to encourage us all, myself included, to be meticulously accurate in our use of words; to say what we mean. That's a good, positive and helpful thing, even if it looks like pedantry to casual observers.

Mind you, even for pedants, it's acceptable to make certain assumptions. In fact, unless we're going to try to compose a systematic theology thread, we're going to have to do that. I don't feel a need to quote scriptures for every statement I make. But, if I make statements that seem inaccurate, they need to be explained or changed, based on scripture.

So, I'd like to begin with what will seem incredibly picky, picky, picky: Spiritual leadership. To save time, I'll even state my conclusion first.

Leaders in NTM, Inc. are not spiritual leaders as presented in the Bible. In other words, they are not elders, bishops, deacons, pastors or any other church office found in the Bible. Moreover, to arrogate to themselves the honor, duties or prerogatives of such dishonors the Lord and gives rise to unnecessary confusion, discord and conflict.

NTM, Inc. is not even a church in any sense that their own teaching recognizes a church - universal or local. Their leaders may well be members of local churches and even hold scriptural offices in that church. But, that does not make them an Elder in the Church of New Tribes Mission, Inc.

The church is important to Christ, to God. In Ephesians 5.25 we are told that Christ loved the church, and gave himself for her. The very same words are used in Galatians 2.20, where He "loved me, and gave himself for me." It is no small thing to intrude upon an individual's relationship with his Lord; it is no less so to do it with the heavenly Groom and His Bride. God's revealed plan is that qualified men serve in positions of spiritual leadership in local churches, not para-church organizations. Even messed up local churches are represented by scriptural example. There is no such thing as a "scriptural" para-church organization, and no room in such a group for biblical church offices.

Past leadership in NTM, Inc. has referred to the "high position, exalted position" of their leaders, based on their having been raised up by God to shepherd the flock. Present leadership still considers themselves to be spiritual leaders of their flock. This is defective theology, at best. It doesn't even match what they are attempting to do in church planting around the world. The model is to have the flock shepherded by local church leadership, not self-appointed men in another country.

Leaders in NTM, Inc. have no more responsibility, from a scriptural vantage point, for the spiritual care of their employees than any other Christian has for any other Christian, leaders or not. Or, to offer an example, a member of senior management in IBM who is a strong Christian has no more responsibility for the spiritual welfare of his subordinate who is a Christian than the subordinate has for him.

A member of senior management does have certain scriptural obligations to his subordinate, of course. Masters (employers we would call them today, though employees often feel like slaves!), are to provide their subordinates with what is right and fair (Colossians 4.1), showing the same concern for their welfare that employees are to show for the employer's (Ephesians 6.9). But, this is not a position of spiritual leadership ala the NTM, Inc. model.

NTM, Inc.'s leaders approach their flock graciously in love with concerns from the Word. When any sheep does not respond in the proper way, the shepherd's staff is laid aside and the boom is lowered; the sheep is fired. I do not say employees should never be fired. I do say that it is unscriptural to portray this as an exercise of church discipline. Indeed, it is a travesty of it.

Trying to wear the hat of the employer while carrying the staff of the shepherd only serves to confuse all concerned, and ensure that a good job is done neither as defacto employer nor pseudo-pastor. Sixty two years of NTM, Inc. history support this.

Comments, questions, corrections and insights solicited. I am not the only, and certainly not the best, theological pedant out there.

Please note that this thread is for theologically pedantic comments. Let's try to keep it that way!

Now that NTM has become Ethnos 360, does anyone know if they are still registered as a "church?"? The famous Tuesday night meetings were held because, as a "church," NTM was required to conduct "religious services." They knew they were not a church, yet there was some advantage for them in being so regarded by the government, and whatever that advantage was, it outweighed the truth. Is truth on this important subject still unimportant to the new organization?


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