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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:55 am 
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It's good to read a little "Gene Long" even if it's an old post.
Except it reminds us of what happened......
And makes us throw up.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Bemused wrote:
Alas I'm no theological expert, but I should be for all the theology that I heard while a teenager. It started with devotions at breakfast, chapel three days per week, bible class 5 days a week, plus homework, and on and on. ......

Well, Bemused, a theological expert would be pretty lonesome on this thread. This thread was started for theological pedants - most of whom are not, and ought not to make pretense to be, theological experts. I suppose the two concepts can and occasionally do intersect, but it's rare....

There is, of course, a real danger that perfunctory "devotions," required study and incessant repetition can create theological pedants of a certain stripe. Such folks can point out the errors of Mormonism, but casually overlook contradictions in their own application of "biblical principles."

A good example is the absence of women in positions of leadership in NTM. It was not by accident but on purpose and for philosophical reasons that women were excluded from the Executive Committee, the Field Committees and other positions of "spiritual leadership." While being legally registered as a "church," NTM tried to downplay this status, while at the same time finding parallels between "a New Testament Church" and the various branches of NTM, be it the training program, foreign fields or Executive Committee. All of the men in these positions were styled, and presented themselves as, "spiritual leaders," much like the elder/ bishop/ pastor in the New Testament. Hence, they had to be men. Fidelity to scriptural principles demanded it.

When the Bible is applied by analogy rather than reality, it can lead to some very self-destructive conclusions. It would pay us all, and especially current members of NTM, to be a little more pedantic in our interpretation of Scripture.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:38 pm 
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Think I understood most of that. It's been to long without a good dose of theology. Got immunised for life and the anitbodies levels indicate another dose could have detrimental effects on my mental health. Suspect I'm not the only one to be turned off for life. Oh those endless lectures going over and over the same thing. Interspersed with theolgy so whacko it was laughable.

Did you know that Noah had three sons, one became the father of the white race, one the father of the yellow race and the naughty one the father of the black race. So God got a bit upset with the black one and removed part of their brains, which is why black people . . . Can you believe this rubbish, well we were expected to. Thanks Jim, have you noticed what colour Mr Obama is!
Where did this utter rubbish come from? Jim's highly esteemed universtiy, who banned interracial marriage until rather recently. Of course Jim never questioned this and we weren't expected to either, otherwise Jim got a bit upset and one paid the price.

So not much Religous Mumbo Jumbo down here, just good old reality and the flies.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:28 am 
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Aussie wrote:
Think I understood most of that. It's been to long without a good dose of theology. Got immunised for life and the anitbodies levels indicate another dose could have detrimental effects on my mental health. Suspect I'm not the only one to be turned off for life. Oh those endless lectures going over and over the same thing. Interspersed with theolgy so whacko it was laughable.

Did you know that Noah had three sons, one became the father of the white race, one the father of the yellow race and the naughty one the father of the black race. So God got a bit upset with the black one and removed part of their brains, which is why black people . . . Can you believe this rubbish, well we were expected to. Thanks Jim, have you noticed what colour Mr Obama is!
Where did this utter rubbish come from? Jim's highly esteemed universtiy, who banned interracial marriage until rather recently. Of course Jim never questioned this and we weren't expected to either, otherwise Jim got a bit upset and one paid the price.

So not much Religous Mumbo Jumbo down here, just good old reality and the flies.

Aussie, at one time NTM banned interracial dating at their US bible schools... So, yes, I can believe you were taught this.

"Of course Jim never questioned this and we weren't expected to either..." Of course you were not expected to! Again, we have theology by analogy. Aaron and Miriam questioned Moses and were punished. So, we learn from this not to question our spiritual leaders! Every other principle of interpretation to which NTM gives/ gave lip service is abandoned in an effort to forestall questions - which was really an effort to preserve the power of NTM "spiritual leaders."

There is no room in NTM for theological pedants...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:06 am 
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NTM gladly suffers statements from its own hierarchy that would be scorned if it came from "charismatics." I refer you to earlier posts on this thread about Paul Fleming's "mantle" falling on Ken Johnston. Benny Hin would be hard pressed to top that one, but if he even came close he would be roundly rebuked in NTM circles.

Of course, "our friends" in other ministries can say similar things and we all "know what they mean" and it's fine.

Campus Crusade for Christ recently changed their name. Their vice president for the US attributed the name change to God: "We believe wholeheartedly that God has given us this new name." (Press release here: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/campus-crusade-for-christ-adopts-new-name-cru-125862368.html)

What could they possibly mean by this statement? Yet, it is of a piece with NTM's frequent statements that God led them to do this or that: to change the name of Brown Gold to NTM@Work, to implement certain policies, to have a grace restoration revival, to investigate their boarding schools and (probably at the time) to burn incriminating evidence.

I remember at NTBI we had to have permission to get engaged. Permission from the school leaders, I mean, not our parents. So, I duly wrote out a request to get engaged. It was something like this: Mary and I love one another and want to get married, a decision supported by our parents.

A staff lady suggested that I "put a little more about the Lord in there." I declined; it seemed to me that if a Christian couldn't see the Lord in marriage they hadn't been reading their Bible.

In any case, attributing human decisions to God is merely a way of avoiding personal or corporate responsibility. It is poor theology at its best!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:43 am 
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Gene Long wrote:
Aussie wrote:
Think I understood most of that. It's been to long without a good dose of theology. Got immunised for life and the anitbodies levels indicate another dose could have detrimental effects on my mental health. Suspect I'm not the only one to be turned off for life. Oh those endless lectures going over and over the same thing. Interspersed with theolgy so whacko it was laughable.

Did you know that Noah had three sons, one became the father of the white race, one the father of the yellow race and the naughty one the father of the black race. So God got a bit upset with the black one and removed part of their brains, which is why black people . . . Can you believe this rubbish, well we were expected to. Thanks Jim, have you noticed what colour Mr Obama is!
Where did this utter rubbish come from? Jim's highly esteemed universtiy, who banned interracial marriage until rather recently. Of course Jim never questioned this and we weren't expected to either, otherwise Jim got a bit upset and one paid the price.

So not much Religous Mumbo Jumbo down here, just good old reality and the flies.

Aussie, at one time NTM banned interracial dating at their US bible schools... So, yes, I can believe you were taught this.

"Of course Jim never questioned this and we weren't expected to either..." Of course you were not expected to! Again, we have theology by analogy. Aaron and Miriam questioned Moses and were punished. So, we learn from this not to question our spiritual leaders! Every other principle of interpretation to which NTM gives/ gave lip service is abandoned in an effort to forestall questions - which was really an effort to preserve the power of NTM "spiritual leaders."

There is no room in NTM for theological pedants...


Blow me down with a feather duster, really? NTM banned interracial marriage, hadn't heard that one. Mind you how many non White people were there in PNG when I was there. Lets see, oh I can count them on one hand and have still a couple of fingers left. And one of them wasn't even an American (a NZ Maori and a really good sort), so now I'm down to one and a half fingers. And where did the lone non white American stay when she came out of the bush, with the Australians, now isn't that interesting.
So when did the interracial policy get removed? I'd love to know.
One last question, what colour were most New Guineans, of course they were Albinos?
We were told don't question the racial views expressed, it might get us in trouble. Well NTM, I'm in hot water now, but it's time to have a bath anyway. ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:24 am 
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Aussie wrote:
Blow me down with a feather duster, really? NTM banned interracial marriage, hadn't heard that one. ... ;)


"Dating." They banned interracial dating at their Bible schools in the States. I'm not sure if they ever refused to accept interracial couples as members/ employees.

I know of at least one white American in NTM married to a black African now, so if NTM ever refused membership to interracial marriages in the past, they have now changed.

I know the dating policy was in place until at least the early 1980's. At that time an American citizen of Asian heritage who was raised by white adoptive parents since birth was not allowed to date white boys who attended the school. So, it was not based on cultural considerations, but on racial ones, and on very poor, dreadfully poor, theology.

More recently, I know of at least one case where a white male was allowed to date a girl of Asian heritage who was raised by white parents since less than one year old. So, some changes have been made. What changed? Not God's Word, we can be sure of that....

It might be instructive to ask NTM when and why the policy on dating changed.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:13 am 
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The policy was still in place in the early 80's. I can't say for sure whether in writing it was in place, or just unspoken policy. The attitude flourished. I remember a couple of sisters who went there for a year - friends of mine - and were shocked when one of them asked one of the boys to a dance or something, he responded that he didn't date Asians. Seriously?

At the boarding school, the "nationals" weren't allowed on the compound.

Even that simple statement has my mind screaming "cult, cult, cult!"


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:30 am 
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threewillows wrote:
The policy was still in place in the early 80's. I can't say for sure whether in writing it was in place, or just unspoken policy. The attitude flourished. I remember a couple of sisters who went there for a year - friends of mine - and were shocked when one of them asked one of the boys to a dance or something, he responded that he didn't date Asians. Seriously?

At the boarding school, the "nationals" weren't allowed on the compound.

Even that simple statement has my mind screaming "cult, cult, cult!"


Numonohi was rife with rascism. I remember listening to one female missionary screaming abuse at an Australian who dared to go out with her daughter and her husband who was no better, I believe they put up the sign keeping the "nationals" out. Strange but the two of them could have been done for fraud, they had their fingers so into the books and were ripping people off. They to were dorm parents for a while and then worked in the store. No wonder us kids came out of there with so many problems!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:26 am 
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Let me say this, "most" in the mission are just a bunch of low life losers that have no regard for life and an individuals rights. I saw so much racism in the so called mission of "GOD" that all of them should be charged. Can't stand these people.


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