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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:33 am 
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Nice to have your perspective. We all had different experiences, even between siblings, as MKs. We've also had a range of different experiences dealing with NTM post our MK years.

Some fields seem to have escaped the child abuse scandal, most alas did not.

The biggest fear for many of us is that the reassurances given by NTM that policies and procedures say they have implemented and feel confident will stop the possibility of further abuse, will not work. Alas with the news today of the arrest of Warren Scott, it appears our worst fears have been realised.
My personal dealings with NTM are with one of their "offshoots" Crossview Australia. They have not answered any of my e-mails and in my opinion are now at the level of a cult. This opinion I base on the rhetoric of my own father who claims he speaks on behalf of NTMers in his vicinity. If what he says is true, then alarm bells should well and truly be going off. If he is not speaking the truth and is the extremist he sounds like, then NTM would be well advised to get him to keep his bizzare opinions to himself and seek professional psychiatric help. Given that they dismissed him 20 years ago, I don't know why they even let him associate with them.
Sanford would be also well advised to get Crossview Australia to find someone with a voice, because the only person who seems to be talking for them is my father and that is doing no one any favours, except perhaps myself, because he is just confirming what I have suspected for some time.

Funny old world isn't it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:01 am 
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GuineaMK wrote:
Hello, fellow Mks. Reading the testimonies cuts me deep, knowing such horror happened. And by people who appeared so spiritual. And I find it remarkable that each of you have been so brave and courageous to speak out and share these sensitive memories. I can see that human depravity is so great that there is always a potential for any person to act repugnantly despite apparent spirituality. Each one of your stories is a reminder that we must value accountability, esp. in leadership and on every level of society.

As my username indicates, I am an NTM MK from Guinea, West Africa. I'm a bit younger than most of you and grew up on the field more recently so the NTM culture there may prove to have been a bit different (even aside from the fact that it was a different "field"). My story is a happier story, too. At first I wondered why I would post if I didn't have a testimony of abuse. But I now I think this may offer a little balance to the representation NTM is getting on these forums and I also saw the invitation for all fields to be represented. I realize these forums are for the purpose of bringing the abuse that happened within NTM by NTMers to light, and so the overwhelming emphasis on this negative aspect makes sense. Bring it! But for the few who wonder which NTM fields did not have these Mission School failures, may this post offer a partial response.

The NTM Guinea field hosted and ran an MK boarding school twice during its existence. At first in the early 90s (it closed because of a lack of personnel mid 90s) and later between 2005-2012 (again closing for lack of personnel). Never have I heard of anything below repute being done by anyone involved either time (my older siblings attended the school in the 90s). And my time at the school from 2008-2010 was wonderful. I always felt like we were well taken care of.

The truth is, NTM is learning. During my time at the boarding school I recognized steps the leadership was taking to protect the children, add layers of accountability and see that the children feel freedom to get help if they ever feel mistreated. NTM is learning and all because of you who've been brave enough to speak up loudly and persistently until heard. Thank you. I pray you all will find healing at our Savior's hand and forgiveness for those who've done you terrible wrong. And I pray for the present NTM leadership on every level, as they are now humbling bearing the heat and taking responsibility for what was done in the past as well as making steps to reduce the opportunities for history to be repeated.

Thank you again.
~


Thank you for sharing your good good memories of your two years in the MK school in Guinea in 2008-2010. You are right, by that time, NTM had received some jarring wake-up calls about what their boarding schools had been like in decades prior to that. The early '90s were when much of what we discuss here came to light. And to their credit, NTM has made some significant policy changes as a result of those revelations.

Some fields, and some MK schools, have been relatively safe places for children. Thank God for that. I myself had a wonderful MK experience, so I also count myself as one of the lucky ones. The burden I carry is for those fellow MKs who were not so lucky. And there are far, far too many of those.

While I acknowledge that MK schools are now relatively safer places, the news that we have heard this week of an NTM missionary perpetrating, producing and distributing child pornography is a harsh reminder that on an individual level, evil can still be lurking and preying on the innocent. I hope and pray that this causes every parent to be even more aware and more vigilant. Sin is still rampant, missionaries. And it can be occurring within your own ranks. Keep your eyes open! Please! And listen to your heart and your gut.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:11 am 
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Bemused wrote:
My personal dealings with NTM are with one of their "offshoots" Crossview Australia. They have not answered any of my e-mails and in my opinion are now at the level of a cult. This opinion I base on the rhetoric of my own father who claims he speaks on behalf of NTMers in his vicinity. If what he says is true, then alarm bells should well and truly be going off. If he is not speaking the truth and is the extremist he sounds like, then NTM would be well advised to get him to keep his bizzare opinions to himself and seek professional psychiatric help. Given that they dismissed him 20 years ago, I don't know why they even let him associate with them.
Sanford would be also well advised to get Crossview Australia to find someone with a voice, because the only person who seems to be talking for them is my father and that is doing no one any favours, except perhaps myself, because he is just confirming what I have suspected for some time.

Funny old world isn't it.


Crossview, you are in the crosshairs! When are you going to man up? I have tried to stay out of this, as I don't live Downunder. But this is getting ridiculous.

Is Bemused's father your chosen representative now? Are his opinions now your official positions?

If not, you need to represent yourself, and you need to communicate with the MKs who have things to say to you. Stop hiding in the bushes. Stand up, face the music.


(Chainsaw? What chainsaw? Nah .... you'll be fine.)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:37 am 
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My Dear Raz,

No, no, no, no, no. Please do feel free in joining in the prodding of Crossview into action. We are all in this together, no more do the past lines of demarkation exist. Even my learned father does not differentiate between the two entities of NTM. In his latest outburst, he does not mention Crossview once, only claims he is speaking on behalf of his small group of fellow NTMers. So unless New Zealand is somehow alligned with NTM and Australia is not, my learned fathers self proclaimed representation of NTMers is a problem for both entities.

We all served or were MKs under the banner of NTM, calling oneself Crossview does not change that fact. If I paint myself black and white and call myself a Zebra, yet still have a hump, bad breath and spit, I'm still a Camel.

If Crossview is crazy enough to let my father say he is speaking on behalf of them, so be it. He may unwittingly be doing more damage than by us exposing the truth and calling for their response. He has now backed them into a corner, if they do nothing he will think he has their blessing and if they come out and try to reign him in he will go ballistic and fight for his own preservation because he'll then be forced into admitting Bemused is right. Either way, ironically my fathers latest rantings have done us a favour.

As I say, it's a funny old world. And you are more than welcome to join me in watching this part of it, it's turning out to be quite a show.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:06 pm 
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:)

I'm here, right beside you. Can you see me now? Put my dentures back in, just for you. ;)

Yes, quite the show.

I think those are camels painted with stripes, hiding in the bushes.

Helloooo, camels!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:16 pm 
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GuineaMK wrote:
Hello, fellow Mks. Reading the testimonies cuts me deep, knowing such horror happened. And by people who appeared so spiritual. And I find it remarkable that each of you have been so brave and courageous to speak out and share these sensitive memories. I can see that human depravity is so great that there is always a potential for any person to act repugnantly despite apparent spirituality. Each one of your stories is a reminder that we must value accountability, esp. in leadership and on every level of society.

As my username indicates, I am an NTM MK from Guinea, West Africa. I'm a bit younger than most of you and grew up on the field more recently so the NTM culture there may prove to have been a bit different (even aside from the fact that it was a different "field"). My story is a happier story, too. At first I wondered why I would post if I didn't have a testimony of abuse. But I now I think this may offer a little balance to the representation NTM is getting on these forums and I also saw the invitation for all fields to be represented. I realize these forums are for the purpose of bringing the abuse that happened within NTM by NTMers to light, and so the overwhelming emphasis on this negative aspect makes sense. Bring it! But for the few who wonder which NTM fields did not have these Mission School failures, may this post offer a partial response.

The NTM Guinea field hosted and ran an MK boarding school twice during its existence. At first in the early 90s (it closed because of a lack of personnel mid 90s) and later between 2005-2012 (again closing for lack of personnel). Never have I heard of anything below repute being done by anyone involved either time (my older siblings attended the school in the 90s). And my time at the school from 2008-2010 was wonderful. I always felt like we were well taken care of.

The truth is, NTM is learning. During my time at the boarding school I recognized steps the leadership was taking to protect the children, add layers of accountability and see that the children feel freedom to get help if they ever feel mistreated. NTM is learning and all because of you who've been brave enough to speak up loudly and persistently until heard. Thank you. I pray you all will find healing at our Savior's hand and forgiveness for those who've done you terrible wrong. And I pray for the present NTM leadership on every level, as they are now humbling bearing the heat and taking responsibility for what was done in the past as well as making steps to reduce the opportunities for history to be repeated.

Thank you again.
~


Welcome, GuineaMK, and thank you for taking the time to post your perspective and thoughts about your experience as an MK in NTM. It is good to hear that you feel you had such a positive experience and that you witnessed a more healthy environment for MKs at the boarding school you and your siblings attended. I would love to hear more of your perspective and experience. It is so true that even siblings had such different experiences in boarding schools; this was true in my family as well.

One question that I would have in regards to what you have posted is about your comment that NTM is taking steps to reduce the opportunities for history to be repeated. While this may be true in the area of boarding schools, I would question whether this is true in the area of the kind of environment that allows pedophiles to remain active members while perpetrating abuse. An environment that is open, honest, transparent, healthy and actively talking and acting decisively against child abuse is one in which a pedophile or other perpetrator cannot easily operate and one which they would avoid.

The burden for creating this kind of atmosphere lies squarely with the leadership...leadership abuses and spiritual abuse contribute to the kind of environment where abuse can more easily go undetected. This is what stood out to me (and I imagine many others) about the GRACE report; it emphasized very clearly that the leadership style and structure NTM uses actually contributes to this kind of environment. My point is that NTM has not changed its leadership structure and I myself have experienced leadership abuse and spiritual abuse as outlined in the GRACE report as recently as 2010-2011. This was actually one of the significant factors in moving me out of NTM as I recognized for the first time the seriously unhealthy environment I was in (I am also an NTM MK, so I know the organization very well). I know many others who have experienced this same type of abuse from leadership and in quite recent years and on several different fields of ministry.

All this to say that I am not sure that I can agree that NTM is doing everything it can to prevent future abuses of MKs and others as long as they are not willing to take a good, hard, long look at their leadership style and structure. Until they do, we will most likely continue to hear of cases such as Scott Kennell...this is not the first recent case that NTM has had to deal with. It is my understanding that Scott Kennell was a consultant for the Brazil field, and as such, was a leader on the Brazilian field. He may not have been on the field committee, but as a consultant he would have had significant influence in the organization at the field level as he was a language and culture learning coach and had authority over other missionaries. Missionaries in NTM are not put into such influential positions unless they are respected and appointed by leadership. I would have to seriously question the leadership that put such a man into such a position...

Not trying to dump on you here, but I would love to see some good, open, honest dialogue going on inside NTM about these things. Unfortunately, what I have observed is that these deeper, more fundamental issues aren't being talked about and that NTM doesn't seem to have any desire to think about really addressing the leadership failures, both in the past and in the present. What I have observed is that whoever brings up a problem or issue tends to become the problem instead. NTM does not handle criticism or negative feedback well even when they so desperately need to hear it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:30 pm 
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I think we have to be realistic here. Evidence is suggesting that the claimed efforts of setting in place policies to prevent further abuse are probably more for the appeasement of the concerned than being of much practical effect.
Paedophiles are clever and devious, they will carry on abusing, just be a bit more clever and we now live in the computer age. Every so often one will be caught, as happened this week. But unless victims blow the whistle and the whistle is heard by the right people, such as ICE (not the field committee e.t.c.) there will be more victims.

Yes the stripes have been painted on the beast, the beast is calling itself a Zebra, but it rained this week and some of the camouflage washed off and we all got a glimpse of the humps, the spitting and the bad breath. It's still a flaming camel folks.

Wakey wakey.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Bemused wrote:
I think we have to be realistic here. Evidence is suggesting that the claimed efforts of setting in place policies to prevent further abuse are probably more for the appeasement of the concerned than being of much practical effect.
Paedophiles are clever and devious, they will carry on abusing, just be a bit more clever and we now live in the computer age. Every so often one will be caught, as happened this week. But unless victims blow the whistle and the whistle is heard by the right people, such as ICE (not the field committee e.t.c.) there will be more victims.

Yes the stripes have been painted on the beast, the beast is calling itself a Zebra, but it rained this week and some of the camouflage washed off and we all got a glimpse of the humps, the spitting and the bad breath. It's still a flaming camel folks.

Wakey wakey.


I agree, Bemused...and yes, victims having the courage to speak out is key...I believe that part of what makes that more likely is the creation of an environment where victims know they will be heard, that someone will take it seriously, that it will get to the right people. What victim is going to speak out when they see what happens to others who speak out and are revictimized, unheard, marginalized, etc? I don't believe it is ever possible to entirely avoid some issues, seems like there will always be this kind of thing happening, but leadership of an organization/church/etc. can be intentional to create an environment that I described above. And the response to victims who do speak out is really telling as to what kind of group, church, organization, etc. it is, as well as encouraging or discouraging others to come forward as well. Some may never come forward, even when conditions are favorable, and that's also a fact of life as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:08 pm 
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I am glad GuineaMK has good memories.

My NTM abuser had toes that clicked when he walked.

He was good at maintenance. He oiled doors. They did not squeak at night.

But his toes clicked.

Those are my memories from 15 years ago.

Apparently "We are all called to sacrifice for the gospel honey". Thanks mother.

I'm only posting for the first time on my friends computer (she is watching me shake). You see I am scared as the site stores the IP address. I just wanted to say my memories in response to GuineaMK. I am glad for him/her. I wish. I wish many things.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Skylark wrote:
I am glad GuineaMK has good memories.

My NTM abuser had toes that clicked when he walked.

He was good at maintenance. He oiled doors. They did not squeak at night.

But his toes clicked.

Those are my memories from 15 years ago.

Apparently "We are all called to sacrifice for the gospel honey". Thanks mother.

I'm only posting for the first time on my friends computer (she is watching me shake). You see I am scared as the site stores the IP address. I just wanted to say my memories in response to GuineaMK. I am glad for him/her. I wish. I wish many things.



I'm sooo sorry Skylark. I'm sooo so sorry for what you went through. I wish... for you to be granted peace...and if I could insert a hug right here....I would put one here for you.

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