MK forum

You may be pushing up daisys
In some field far away
But your wickedness will
Come home to roost one day

And those that defended you
Will hang their heads in shame
For there is only yourselves
That truly you can blame

We didn't ask you
To leave your mess upon our lives
Not just us
But your kids, friends and wives

Rest In Peace for the time being
Till you meet your God and explain why
Then do what so many of us have done
And cry and cry and cry

Thanks, Befused.
We are rather short-fused over this.

For those pushing up daisies,,, that are now reaping..

our memories and pain have not died!

Thanks Bemused

In 100 years time, when historians recount the story of NTM, what will be the number one feature they will mention first:
The number of souls saved?
The child abuse scandal?

Food for thought and something that lies in hands other than ours, we can just point in the right direction and point we do.

Dear Fanda Eagles forum operators,

First, let me preface this email by saying that I am pretty ambivalent to NTM’s existence/ non-existence. God will get his work done with or without NTM, so this is a side issue to me.

I attended Tambo school for all but one year of my schooling, graduating class of 1989. I had a pretty good experience, but I saw some of the issues you address in the Fanda Eagle forums. A lot of my childhood was spent feeling like I was always going to “get it” or get in trouble or maybe that I was in trouble and didn’t even know it because things were unpredictable and the wrong people were in power, even if they weren’t outwardly what you would term abusers. They were controllers and very, very strict, impatient and not understanding of how kids are in general. It was like how old, old people that have never had any kids of their own act around my kids….they can’t understand kids and get annoyed with them.

I think the boarding schools were a bad idea from the beginning and I think closing all of them would be a good start. I am of the belief that if God gave you children, it’s YOUR job to raise your own children and they should be a major priority in your life.

Things were a little different in the 60s and 70s (boarding schools were seen as a prestigious thing in Europe and an acceptable option for schooling), but today we see them much differently. Culture has changed, but problems like the abuse are a large part of our current views.

I got an email from an old friend the other day informing me that my father, Bob Garland had been put on “the list” by the Fanda Eagle Forum. I spoke with my sister, and later my mom about the allegations on Dad. My sister said there is no way this could be true, as dad was a perfect gentleman and our parents always had an incredibly great marriage. Mom said Dad lived his life with integrity and never would do such a thing, which all of us siblings also know, and she said that Dad would confess even the slightest things all of their marriage (things she thought were not even worth him mentioning), and therefore, she is not worried or stressed about him being listed on the site. My dad was a defender of the defenseless and did a lot to rid NTM of the people you now accuse him of being. He was the only Bolivia Field Committee member that demanded Rich Hine leave and be dismissed immediately (when the executive committee heard this news, they sided with Dad). Dad also was the only one that wanted to dismiss another man that had issues back in the 80’s. The mission did not agree with dad and let that family just resign, something my dad was against as he felt the issue needed to be brought to the light to prevent the guy from working with kids ever again. I recently hunted them down and got their church involved to keep the man from working with children, as he was being recently seen with national kids all around him all of the time. Needless to say this family was not happy with me. Dad also was the one that said Ernie Kreitz should be gotten rid of when the issues with him first came to light. I think probably many folks said the same thing on that man. A few years later the guy was at it again. My sister heard about it from one of the abused, gathered her friends, and informed their dorm mother about this. The guy was packed up and gone within a day or two, which is what should have been done the first time around. As my dad, said - there should be no second chance when kids are at risk. Knowing my dad as we did, my siblings and I are certain he wouldn’t be a perpetrator. I do think someone might make something up to get back at our family, but that is difficult for me to prove.

Eagle Fanda Forum Site:
I believe the Fanda Eagles site was started with good intentions; get NTM to own up to the problems, find the abusers, get justice and so forth.

But, I think you’ve strayed from the original mission and are not serving the victims and members properly anymore. My impression and quite a few others out there (just ask for honest, unbiased feedback) that have read much on your forums and followed this are seeing that the site is run by a group of people that seem very angry, impulsive, rash, and quick to condemn without an organized, real fact gathering/evaluation process. One person said (not an NTM member, by the way) this about the group “that because of their unbounded zeal to accuse everybody they’ve lost their credibility”. Well, I think it’s more in HOW you are going about the process.
I think your site reads more like a bunch of vigilantes hell bent on a crusade against anything that even remotely looks like a potential “target” than anyone doing an honest/true investigation.

Example of how your site COULD read: “After going through our 7 point Fanda Eagles complaint evaluation process, we have added another name to the list”.
Example of how your site ACTUALLY reads: “Well, got another email from an anonymous person and another two names are on the list….two more down and many more to go”. This is followed usually by angry, impulsive bitter comments from other group members chiming in with a sort of “victory forum chant”.

Getting from point A (“where/who are the abusers”) to Point B (“here they are and let’s serve justice”), is a very important process that either builds or destroys the credibility of an organization that wants to be taken seriously. Investigators here in the US name “persons of interest” in many cases these days for a very good reason. They are investigating a complaint/allegation and are not ready to say the person is guilty – even if they know the person is guilty, they withhold premature judgment until they have a chance to investigate things properly, professionally. Your site skips that process, making people guilty without any way to prove their innocence because only your group holds the power to modify the website. Imagine how this world would be if they instantly named the person as guilty of the offense. We’d be living in a scary, Gestapo-style world to be sure. The ironic part to me is that nobody on your Fanda Forum site is probably properly qualified to investigate this type of thing, indicating that you would need to take an even longer time than a qualified investigator to do the same quality of a job, but instead you take LESS time and instantly label people.

Climate at Fanda Missionary School: At boarding school the abuse happened because, the dorm parents/teachers held all of the power, you had no recourse to stop them and you were in the middle of nowhere and couldn’t even probably escape if you tried – you’d get lost in the jungle and/or eaten by a tiger.
Climate at Fanda Eagle Forum: Fanda Eagle forum operators are in a similar position to the staff/dorm parents when you were in missionary school and the abuse was going on…..just, now you hold the keys/power with your keyboard, mouse and internet forum. You are abusing your apparent power. Problem is if you are wrong, you are going to hurt yourselves with either libel lawsuits or worse yet, bearing false witness against innocent people because you were so hasty to judge and label people that you didn’t take time to investigate things.

Fanda Eagles Criticisms:
NTM ignored the issues: Yes, they did but I think they are acting now like never before to get to the bottom of this, and working WITH them instead of in an adversarial role will get a lot more done in my opinion.
NTM isn’t moving fast enough: Well, for the Fanda Eagle’s site to move on something, they only need 2 or 3 votes before jumping up from the dinner table with the “pervert shotgun” in hand to shoot the suspect because, well, there was an email message from abc person alleging xyz and they’re guilty dagnabbit, so “let’s get ‘em”.
REALITY: An organization that is legitimate cannot just drag folks out of their houses and into a tribunal and execute them.
REMEMBER: NOTHING moves fast enough for ANY victim anywhere, anytime, hence the temptation to drag them out and shoot them yourselves, but that’s not a proper/viable option…..that’s life. Responsible investigation = taking your time to do it right. Not, shooting first and asking questions later. If you hunt down murderers vigilante style and kill them, but you also happen to kill someone that’s not a murderer, you’re a murderer as bad as the ones you were killing.

The misconception that the Fanda Eagles Forum seems to operate under is that taking the time to evaluate and investigate properly is somehow not good for your victims or that justice won’t be served. That’s a faulty premise. Take your time, do it right, and then you will won’t be guilty of falsely accusing people.

Jesus had harsh words for these groups of people:
Absolute Worst: hateful, bitter, angry, unforgiving people. Believe it or not, Jesus had harsher words for this group of people than the worst offenders you are hunting down. Matthew 6:14-15
2nd Worst: Child abusers; the ones you hunt; or people that hurt children or mess them up. Luke 17: 1-2
3rd Worst: People that stir up dissension among brothers; Jesus said that was an abomination to him. He didn’t say that about, #2 interestingly enough, so, maybe 2 and 3 are the same or 3 is even worse than 2. I don’t know. Proverbs 6:19
3rd Worst – Runner UP: Those that bear false witness against people (something you risk doing if you hastily condemn without investigating). Proverbs 6:19 (and, it’s one of the Ten Commandments)

Well, those are my thoughts.

Here’s to truth, peace, honesty, the patience to carry out justice properly, and more importantly, love – the distrust, anger, and overall bad blood are a sad byproduct of all of this.

Thanks for reading this long email,
Nate

Nate,

I think you have eloquently expressed a lot of the concerns I have had with this growing list. It's beginning to feel more like a witch hunt, and honestly, I don't see how it doesn't open the site owners/managers up to potential libel lawsuits in allowing it to continue. There is no process or accountability to it,and the accusations are of the sort that are often viewed as guilty until proven innocent - in other words, incredibly serious to just publicly document. And I'm not sure what it accomplishes, since the investigators can't do anything with accusations from anonymous screen names.

I made a report about abuses to the IHART team. It felt right, and I'm impressed with the steps they are taking and the course they are charting. I felt like I truly made a difference in that moment. I don't feel that way about this discussion thread. I like a lot about this website and forum, but this particular discussion thread has been giving me increasing red flags, from the way the accusations are being made to the way people have been responding.

mitt linsanity santorum,
My point is that you are quoting someone else's work.
GRACE did a full report and it seems David Brooks confessed, admitted this and that name belongs.

I'm talking about the new names where no official investigation has been done (Tambo in particular and other NTM schools where they have not investigated).

GRACE did not print the names of anyone until after they had done their investigation.
That's my point.

mitt linsanity santorum,
I can't answer that, as I am not following the reports, nor am I involved in any investigations, plus, I don't run this site. I don't publish anyone's names because that is not my place. I'm not an investigator, nor am I a reporter. I just know that David Brooks did confess and that report is out. So, that one shouldn't be an issue in my opinion. It's the other schools that have not been investigated yet.

In other words, it is one thing to name people that have been fully investigated and found guilty. I have no problem with them being named.

I am merely saying that unless investigations have been made, we shouldn't name anyone on this site.
Read my letter again and you will see what I said.

Here it is again.....my point was not to start listing the people one at a time, just


Dear Fanda Eagles forum operators,

First, let me preface this email by saying that I am pretty ambivalent to NTM’s existence/ non-existence. God will get his work done with or without NTM, so this is a side issue to me.

I attended Tambo school for all but one year of my schooling, graduating class of 1989. I had a pretty good experience, but I saw some of the issues you address in the Fanda Eagle forums. A lot of my childhood was spent feeling like I was always going to “get it” or get in trouble or maybe that I was in trouble and didn’t even know it because things were unpredictable and the wrong people were in power, even if they weren’t outwardly what you would term abusers. They were controllers and very, very strict, impatient and not understanding of how kids are in general. It was like how old, old people that have never had any kids of their own act around my kids….they can’t understand kids and get annoyed with them.

I think the boarding schools were a bad idea from the beginning and I think closing all of them would be a good start. I am of the belief that if God gave you children, it’s YOUR job to raise your own children and they should be a major priority in your life.

Things were a little different in the 60s and 70s (boarding schools were seen as a prestigious thing in Europe and an acceptable option for schooling), but today we see them much differently. Culture has changed, but problems like the abuse are a large part of our current views.

I got an email from an old friend the other day informing me that my father, Bob Garland had been put on “the list” by the Fanda Eagle Forum. I spoke with my sister, and later my mom about the allegations on Dad. My sister said there is no way this could be true, as dad was a perfect gentleman and our parents always had an incredibly great marriage. Mom said Dad lived his life with integrity and never would do such a thing, which all of us siblings also know, and she said that Dad would confess even the slightest things all of their marriage (things she thought were not even worth him mentioning), and therefore, she is not worried or stressed about him being listed on the site. My dad was a defender of the defenseless and did a lot to rid NTM of the people you now accuse him of being. He was the only Bolivia Field Committee member that demanded Rich Hine leave and be dismissed immediately (when the executive committee heard this news, they sided with Dad). Dad also was the only one that wanted to dismiss another man that had issues back in the 80’s. The mission did not agree with dad and let that family just resign, something my dad was against as he felt the issue needed to be brought to the light to prevent the guy from working with kids ever again. I recently hunted them down and got their church involved to keep the man from working with children, as he was being recently seen with national kids all around him all of the time. Needless to say this family was not happy with me. Dad also was the one that said Ernie Kreitz should be gotten rid of when the issues with him first came to light. I think probably many folks said the same thing on that man. A few years later the guy was at it again. My sister heard about it from one of the abused, gathered her friends, and informed their dorm mother about this. The guy was packed up and gone within a day or two, which is what should have been done the first time around. As my dad, said - there should be no second chance when kids are at risk. Knowing my dad as we did, my siblings and I are certain he wouldn’t be a perpetrator. I do think someone might make something up to get back at our family, but that is difficult for me to prove.

Eagle Fanda Forum Site:
I believe the Fanda Eagles site was started with good intentions; get NTM to own up to the problems, find the abusers, get justice and so forth.

But, I think you’ve strayed from the original mission and are not serving the victims and members properly anymore. My impression and quite a few others out there (just ask for honest, unbiased feedback) that have read much on your forums and followed this are seeing that the site is run by a group of people that seem very angry, impulsive, rash, and quick to condemn without an organized, real fact gathering/evaluation process. One person said (not an NTM member, by the way) this about the group “that because of their unbounded zeal to accuse everybody they’ve lost their credibility”. Well, I think it’s more in HOW you are going about the process.
I think your site reads more like a bunch of vigilantes hell bent on a crusade against anything that even remotely looks like a potential “target” than anyone doing an honest/true investigation.

Example of how your site COULD read: “After going through our 7 point Fanda Eagles complaint evaluation process, we have added another name to the list”.
Example of how your site ACTUALLY reads: “Well, got another email from an anonymous person and another two names are on the list….two more down and many more to go”. This is followed usually by angry, impulsive bitter comments from other group members chiming in with a sort of “victory forum chant”.

Getting from point A (“where/who are the abusers”) to Point B (“here they are and let’s serve justice”), is a very important process that either builds or destroys the credibility of an organization that wants to be taken seriously. Investigators here in the US name “persons of interest” in many cases these days for a very good reason. They are investigating a complaint/allegation and are not ready to say the person is guilty – even if they know the person is guilty, they withhold premature judgment until they have a chance to investigate things properly, professionally. Your site skips that process, making people guilty without any way to prove their innocence because only your group holds the power to modify the website. Imagine how this world would be if they instantly named the person as guilty of the offense. We’d be living in a scary, Gestapo-style world to be sure. The ironic part to me is that nobody on your Fanda Forum site is probably properly qualified to investigate this type of thing, indicating that you would need to take an even longer time than a qualified investigator to do the same quality of a job, but instead you take LESS time and instantly label people.

Climate at Fanda Missionary School: At boarding school the abuse happened because, the dorm parents/teachers held all of the power, you had no recourse to stop them and you were in the middle of nowhere and couldn’t even probably escape if you tried – you’d get lost in the jungle and/or eaten by a tiger.
Climate at Fanda Eagle Forum: Fanda Eagle forum operators are in a similar position to the staff/dorm parents when you were in missionary school and the abuse was going on…..just, now you hold the keys/power with your keyboard, mouse and internet forum. You are abusing your apparent power. Problem is if you are wrong, you are going to hurt yourselves with either libel lawsuits or worse yet, bearing false witness against innocent people because you were so hasty to judge and label people that you didn’t take time to investigate things.

Fanda Eagles Criticisms:
NTM ignored the issues: Yes, they did but I think they are acting now like never before to get to the bottom of this, and working WITH them instead of in an adversarial role will get a lot more done in my opinion.
NTM isn’t moving fast enough: Well, for the Fanda Eagle’s site to move on something, they only need 2 or 3 votes before jumping up from the dinner table with the “pervert shotgun” in hand to shoot the suspect because, well, there was an email message from abc person alleging xyz and they’re guilty dagnabbit, so “let’s get ‘em”.
REALITY: An organization that is legitimate cannot just drag folks out of their houses and into a tribunal and execute them.
REMEMBER: NOTHING moves fast enough for ANY victim anywhere, anytime, hence the temptation to drag them out and shoot them yourselves, but that’s not a proper/viable option…..that’s life. Responsible investigation = taking your time to do it right. Not, shooting first and asking questions later. If you hunt down murderers vigilante style and kill them, but you also happen to kill someone that’s not a murderer, you’re a murderer as bad as the ones you were killing.

The misconception that the Fanda Eagles Forum seems to operate under is that taking the time to evaluate and investigate properly is somehow not good for your victims or that justice won’t be served. That’s a faulty premise. Take your time, do it right, and then you will won’t be guilty of falsely accusing people.

Jesus had harsh words for these groups of people:
Absolute Worst: hateful, bitter, angry, unforgiving people. Believe it or not, Jesus had harsher words for this group of people than the worst offenders you are hunting down. Matthew 6:14-15
2nd Worst: Child abusers; the ones you hunt; or people that hurt children or mess them up. Luke 17: 1-2
3rd Worst: People that stir up dissension among brothers; Jesus said that was an abomination to him. He didn’t say that about, #2 interestingly enough, so, maybe 2 and 3 are the same or 3 is even worse than 2. I don’t know. Proverbs 6:19
3rd Worst – Runner UP: Those that bear false witness against people (something you risk doing if you hastily condemn without investigating). Proverbs 6:19 (and, it’s one of the Ten Commandments)

Well, those are my thoughts.

Here’s to truth, peace, honesty, the patience to carry out justice properly, and more importantly, love – the distrust, anger, and overall bad blood are a sad byproduct of all of this.

Thanks for reading this long email,
Nate

Quoting Amazon Man: "Dad also was the one that said Ernie Kreitz should be gotten rid of when the issues with him first came to light. I think probably many folks said the same thing on that man. A few years later the guy was at it again. My sister heard about it from one of the abused, gathered her friends, and informed their dorm mother about this. The guy was packed up and gone within a day or two, which is what should have been done the first time around."

In New Tribes Mission, nothing is worse - nothing more humiliating, traumatic, upsetting, repugnant - than being "dismissed" or "kicked out" and sent packing. That, to New Tribes Mission and their employees, is as bad as it gets.

However, it is NOT the best or proper response to every offense. It's appropriate, I suppose, for sins as heinous as showing contempt and disrespect for the Field Committee. For that, we need to bring out the big guns.

But, for such sins as child abuse, sexual or otherwise, it is the exact WRONG response. Those sins are also crimes, and they should have been reported to the police. Frank Parker should have been reported to the police. Les Emory should have been reported to the police. David Brooks should have been reported to the police. It's a long list.

That is why GOD ordained police as his ministers to us for good. It is THEIR job to investigate crimes, not GRACE, not anyone else. I applaud the work GRACE has done, but had these crimes been handled by the police at the time of their commission, GRACE could spend their time doing something else!

Showing criminals the door is the exact wrong response, it is the self-serving response, it is the easy and convenient response and it is NTM's way to this very day.