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 Post subject: I'll stick my neck out.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Some of this post will no doubt ruffle a few feathers and some of it will possibly make others want to duck. It is my own PERSONAL OPINION, I base it on what I have experienced, found out and reasoned from what I have before me:

darthjaded wrote: (in relation to the Panama MKs request) 24/7/14

Quote:
Okay NTM, the world is watching, the requests are reasonable and clear, what are you going to do?


Bemused replied:

Quote:
O.k. I shall make a prediction.

VERY LITTLE!

I'll be fair and acknowledge that Sanford will tell you they have received the communique, for all Sandford's faults they are not rude and totally evasive like their Australian cousins.
In the acknowledgement of receipt, I predict the words will be that the communique will be prayerfully considered and Wisdom sort as to how to implement any of the recommendations.

Then it will fade into obscurity, because the outcome of the findings has already been predetermined by legal precedents. Scapegoats will be found, preferably that are no longer with NTM or are dead. Leadership will receive a note in a file and there will be a mention of some payments to the counselling fund.

I hope I am wrong and have to eat a large serving of humble pie and I also hope the "world" really is watching (has Boz, IHART, GRACE, RNS, CBN news, Crossview, all other "Global" partners and whoever else is connected to this issue been notified). For the world to know, someone must go and tell them ;) .


That was over 2 weeks ago. A source within NTM says that the letter from the Panama MKs has been discussed by the EB, yet the MKs say that they have had no acknowledgement of receipt.

Assuming that both sources are correct, that is truly strange. Why?


I am a PNG MK from the 70s and 80's. It was a field that according to comparisons was more legalistic and hard line than other fields. Much time was spent by some men in pursing power and they did this at the expense of their colleagues and the God they claimed to serve. I suggest that this culture was the perfect environment for sex offenders to flourish, because as long as you backed the right person in their quest for power, you could have a blind eye turned to what you were doing.
If you spoke out about the direction these men were taking the PNG field, then you suffered retaliation. I believe my father, to his credit, had this happen to him.
All the time we had pumped into us the message "Let Go and Let God", but it wasn't God at all we were letting go to, it was a command to never question what was being done in God's name, whether it be good or evil. I suspect this is why PNG MKs are not represented well on forums such as Fanda Eagles, they have often had their faith destroyed or often their faith is a result of fear in not believing rather than a result of seeing something that was truly wondrous and wanting that for their own personal faith (which in my book is the way it should be). Fear ruled at Numonohi!

So what happened to the men who left PNG who had experienced or participated in the "grab for power at any cost" culture? Quite a few ended up back in the States and exerted their influence in the higher parts of NTM's training schools and the EB itself (have a quick look at who is on the EB and their origins).
There was in my brief time at Numonohi 6 sex offenders operating that are known about. Numonohi had a sadistic culture when it came to child abuse, in that offenders strangely bragged about what they were doing to children. This is unusual, but at Numonohi it was common. So claims that anyone who spent any significant time at Numonohi did not know what was going on are dubious. And if I heard these discussions of strange physical punishments and I was at the bottom of the pecking order then there is no way that most other people did not hear the same.

Therefore it is my belief that the NTM leadership has much to cover up when it comes to PNG and some of those who know what other men (who they were friendly with and may still well be) have done, have a strong vested interest in keeping the lid tightly on what they know!
Senegal was a test case. GRACE was contracted to investigate, but the panic set in when the findings were conclusive that the abuse was horrific and prolific. Then GRACE had to be got rid of, so what better way than to accuse GRACE of abusing a process and lapping up a bit of sympathy, then instituting IHART and calling it independent. Put in charge of IHART someone who either cannot communicate or is communicating exactly what NTM wants and then the sham is set up.

Of course all the time being pumped out is the message that NTM has changed, new policies are in place and any abuse will be dealt with correctly, should it occur.
However note how NTM dealt with the arrest and conviction of Scott Kennell and the exposure of Gary Earl as a current serving member as a sex offender. The former was not turned in by NTM and a statement was issued distancing his behaviour from NTM and the latter was not dealt with as per NTMs own guidelines!
Current members of NTM are being asked to buy into the propaganda that all has changed and that there will be no more abuse of children and should a case arise it will be dealt with appropriately. Most have no choice but to accept this, because their livelihood is dependant on them complying and not asking questions.

NTM is not acting compassionately with it's pasts victims, it is acting in self perseveration mode, no doubt on legal advice taken.
And my explanation for this is that those who are in control have connections with many dark secrets and many of those secrets originate in PNG and with those who "served" there. This is why I predict that if IHART ever gets round to investigating the PNG field it will be near the very end of the investigation.

I was an MK in PNG, I saw and heard things that I was not supposed to and I asked questions that were not meant to be asked. Those matters are destined to not be seen or heard by those who are implicated by their participation in them or their participation in the coverup of them and I retain the right to still ask questions. Nothing has changed in that respect.

These are, as I initially said, my own opinions based on what I know and have discovered. Others are welcome to agree or disagree, although I suspect this will get little public reaction, just ruffle a few feathers privately.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:09 pm 
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You have made a convincing case, Bemused.

You were there, and you know what you are talking about.

(That just makes me smile; thinking about the young MK from Downunder that no one paid much attention to there at Numonohi ... talk about destiny! Little did they know what close attention you were paying to what you were seeing and hearing, and how you would reveal it to all of us, many years later!!)

:)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:15 pm 
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Thank you, Bemused!
We support your observations--completely.
It is a fine resume of what has been discussed here
Over and over again
By many.
How many times have I asked---
What secrets does one PNG leader know
Who is now in a much bigger position?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:07 am 
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Raz wrote:
You have made a convincing case, Bemused.

You were there, and you know what you are talking about.

(That just makes me smile; thinking about the young MK from Downunder that no one paid much attention to there at Numonohi ... talk about destiny! Little did they know what close attention you were paying to what you were seeing and hearing, and how you would reveal it to all of us, many years later!!)

:)


To illustrate my point of the sadistic culture that had evolved in Numonohi, these are a few of the strange things that were told to me, all with a gloating delivery:

Dorm Parent (a well known sex offender): "I use the mistletoe hanging in the doorway to kiss the girls"

Dorm Parent: I caught him with his pants down, so I said don't bother pulling them up and spanked him"

Dorm Parent: Do you know how I administer discipline? I give them a choice of two options and then I give them the one they don't choose and when they get wise to that I give them what they opt for"

Principal: "I can intimidate any child so much that they won't be able to tell me what 2 + 2 equals"

It's disturbing enough that this was going on, it is even more disturbing that they would discuss their sadism with a teenager and be proud of what they had done.

So my conclusion is that if this was being discussed freely with me, it is a reasonable assumption that many more people were privy to these strange revelations.

Numonohi was a very strange place with some very strange men, 3 of those 4 men were in positions of power, the fourth wanted to be but failed to achieve his aims. 3 of these 4 men were "experts" in quoting and interpreting the Bible and the fourth seemed to display an amazing lack of interest in Christianity and had an agenda that would have seen him better suited for the KKK not NTM!

And yes my Dear Raz, Bemused has a very good memory ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:09 am 
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Thanks Bemused. You're a good egg. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:22 pm 
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This is a really interesting article:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10363785/Popes-paedophile-priest-catcher-in-NZ

Pope's paedophile priest catcher in NZ

Quote:
Oliver is out to capture paedophile priests, surrendering them to civil law, then exacting whatever punishment the Catholic Church can mete out. It makes him a lightning rod for anti-church sentiment, forces him to confront the church's dark past and its worst miscreants, and means many meetings with victims, often talking of their abuse for the first time. "It breaks your heart," he said.


That is surrendering them to civil law, not paying lip service with little proof it has been done!

Quote:
It's been a major worldwide problem for the church: in the US alone, they've paid more than $US3b in settling over 3,000 lawsuits from victims; in Ireland, there have been several government apologies and inquiries and estimates of thousands of victims. The new pope, Francis, has taken a hard line on abuse and Oliver, 52, was one of his first appointees.


Take note Protestant missions, this is the road you also are heading. The lawsuits have already begun.

Quote:
Oliver visited New Zealand last week, for a conference in Wellington, and granted the Sunday Star-Times a rare interview. The church was once deeply suspicious of the media's approach to sex abuse cases but Oliver believes media did the church a service: "It's hard for any group over time to keep up the kind of energy that's needed to do this work," he explains. "What the media has been doing was to keep that energy up . . ."


Fanda Eagles is NTM's defacto media and plays the role of keeping the pressure on. Yes it is hard to keep the energy up sometimes, but the consequences of not doing so are a heavy burden on consciences that have the ability to speak out.
Quote:
There are few concrete statistics, but a 2004 US study covering 1950-2002 found substantive abuse allegations against 4,392 priests, 4 per cent of the total, with a 1970s peak in offending. Oliver said statistical modelling suggests the number of paedophile priests has dropped below 1 per cent now and only a "very small number" are true paedophiles; the Pope says abusive priests number 2 per cent.


The spokesperson for NTM was quoted as saying that a child in NTM was safer than in secular society. If you were a child at Numonohi in the 70s and 80s that statement is blatantly false. Anyway what sort of excuse is that, the rate should be zero abuse!

Quote:
Oliver, an American, was a serving priest in Boston, where in 2002, five paedophile priests were jailed and the bishop forced to resign. "Most of us had no idea . . . I had no idea this was going on. You come to terms with it and realise all of us are affected by what some of us have done. We really are a fraternity of priests, and some of our brothers doing this affects all of us. When you first hear about abuse, the reaction is ‘it's just not possible, how would an adult harm a child' and then you quickly come to realise not only does it happen, but it is frightening how often it does happen."


And here is the difference. At Numonohi the culture had evolved into openly discussing (gloating is the word I use) about the physical abuse (and to a lesser extent sexual abuse) that was being inflicted. Now the rest of NTM is waking up to what was going on and for some it is coming as a major shock, but for some in prominent positions it is not a major shock because they have known for a long time as they served in PNG.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Very interesting! And encouraging in a way.

We are not alone!!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Thinking of FE as some of the ones who keep the pressure on
Is a great help in keeping up morale here.
And also thinking of some who CAN speak out---
Because so many just can't right now.
There is no reason that Protestant missions
Should take a pass on this issue.
It's very much THERE.
And it must be dealt with.
Yes, those in high places are keeping secrets
To protect themselves, perchance?
Whoever is able to
Please speak up!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:33 pm 
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Thank you Bemused for Sticking out your neck.

Just want to say thank you to all of you who keep up the fight. I love you dearly. I am busy with MK Safety Net which is fighting the same battle in another area. I know all the time you spend here. FE helped me get actively into the battle when it first started. Thank you Kari and Bonnie. Thank you all of you who keep it up every day. I miss being here daily but have not forgotten you.

By the way MK Safety Net is planning another conference April 17 to 19 2015 in Atlanta GA. Registration will soon be open.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Bemused wrote:
Some of this post will no doubt ruffle a few feathers and some of it will possibly make others want to duck. It is my own PERSONAL OPINION, I base it on what I have experienced, found out and reasoned from what I have before me:

darthjaded wrote: (in relation to the Panama MKs request) 24/7/14

Quote:
Okay NTM, the world is watching, the requests are reasonable and clear, what are you going to do?


Bemused replied:

Quote:
O.k. I shall make a prediction.

VERY LITTLE!

I'll be fair and acknowledge that Sanford will tell you they have received the communique, for all Sandford's faults they are not rude and totally evasive like their Australian cousins.
In the acknowledgement of receipt, I predict the words will be that the communique will be prayerfully considered and Wisdom sort as to how to implement any of the recommendations.

Then it will fade into obscurity, because the outcome of the findings has already been predetermined by legal precedents. Scapegoats will be found, preferably that are no longer with NTM or are dead. Leadership will receive a note in a file and there will be a mention of some payments to the counselling fund.

I hope I am wrong and have to eat a large serving of humble pie and I also hope the "world" really is watching (has Boz, IHART, GRACE, RNS, CBN news, Crossview, all other "Global" partners and whoever else is connected to this issue been notified). For the world to know, someone must go and tell them ;) .


That was over 2 weeks ago. A source within NTM says that the letter from the Panama MKs has been discussed by the EB, yet the MKs say that they have had no acknowledgement of receipt.

Assuming that both sources are correct, that is truly strange. Why?


I am a PNG MK from the 70s and 80's. It was a field that according to comparisons was more legalistic and hard line than other fields. Much time was spent by some men in pursing power and they did this at the expense of their colleagues and the God they claimed to serve. I suggest that this culture was the perfect environment for sex offenders to flourish, because as long as you backed the right person in their quest for power, you could have a blind eye turned to what you were doing.
If you spoke out about the direction these men were taking the PNG field, then you suffered retaliation. I believe my father, to his credit, had this happen to him.
All the time we had pumped into us the message "Let Go and Let God", but it wasn't God at all we were letting go to, it was a command to never question what was being done in God's name, whether it be good or evil. I suspect this is why PNG MKs are not represented well on forums such as Fanda Eagles, they have often had their faith destroyed or often their faith is a result of fear in not believing rather than a result of seeing something that was truly wondrous and wanting that for their own personal faith (which in my book is the way it should be). Fear ruled at Numonohi!

So what happened to the men who left PNG who had experienced or participated in the "grab for power at any cost" culture? Quite a few ended up back in the States and exerted their influence in the higher parts of NTM's training schools and the EB itself (have a quick look at who is on the EB and their origins).
There was in my brief time at Numonohi 6 sex offenders operating that are known about. Numonohi had a sadistic culture when it came to child abuse, in that offenders strangely bragged about what they were doing to children. This is unusual, but at Numonohi it was common. So claims that anyone who spent any significant time at Numonohi did not know what was going on are dubious. And if I heard these discussions of strange physical punishments and I was at the bottom of the pecking order then there is no way that most other people did not hear the same.

Therefore it is my belief that the NTM leadership has much to cover up when it comes to PNG and some of those who know what other men (who they were friendly with and may still well be) have done, have a strong vested interest in keeping the lid tightly on what they know!
Senegal was a test case. GRACE was contracted to investigate, but the panic set in when the findings were conclusive that the abuse was horrific and prolific. Then GRACE had to be got rid of, so what better way than to accuse GRACE of abusing a process and lapping up a bit of sympathy, then instituting IHART and calling it independent. Put in charge of IHART someone who either cannot communicate or is communicating exactly what NTM wants and then the sham is set up.

Of course all the time being pumped out is the message that NTM has changed, new policies are in place and any abuse will be dealt with correctly, should it occur.
However note how NTM dealt with the arrest and conviction of Scott Kennell and the exposure of Gary Earl as a current serving member as a sex offender. The former was not turned in by NTM and a statement was issued distancing his behaviour from NTM and the latter was not dealt with as per NTMs own guidelines!
Current members of NTM are being asked to buy into the propaganda that all has changed and that there will be no more abuse of children and should a case arise it will be dealt with appropriately. Most have no choice but to accept this, because their livelihood is dependant on them complying and not asking questions.

NTM is not acting compassionately with it's pasts victims, it is acting in self perseveration mode, no doubt on legal advice taken.
And my explanation for this is that those who are in control have connections with many dark secrets and many of those secrets originate in PNG and with those who "served" there. This is why I predict that if IHART ever gets round to investigating the PNG field it will be near the very end of the investigation.

I was an MK in PNG, I saw and heard things that I was not supposed to and I asked questions that were not meant to be asked. Those matters are destined to not be seen or heard by those who are implicated by their participation in them or their participation in the coverup of them and I retain the right to still ask questions. Nothing has changed in that respect.

These are, as I initially said, my own opinions based on what I know and have discovered. Others are welcome to agree or disagree, although I suspect this will get little public reaction, just ruffle a few feathers privately.


Actually Bemused, I think you are wrong. This post will get a lot of attention. Oh sure no much comment here, but Sanford and Crossview have their reporters who faithfully report back to their masters what they read on here and this post is spot on!!!!!!

There will be those who are thinking about what you have written and know that you have made excellent points. Sanford will be in damage control, the lawyers will be counselling yet again to do and say nothing. But privately their world has been tipped upside down because any NTM who is thinking straight will know how much the hardliners from PNG have taken over NTM and who is calling the shots!!!!!!!

So NTM, on this incredibly sad day, when the world mourns a very talented man who took his own life because of the demons he could not shake, do you ever stop to think of the MKs who have taken their own lives or those of us who have attempted to do so??????
Or is it just business as usual, nothing must rock the boat, until one day you are burying on of your own because the past caught up with them. And on that day, will you wonder why God abandoned you and those who you thought were your brothers and sisters in Christ, say strange things like "it will make you stronger because all things work together . . ."

Rest In Peace Robin Williams, the world mourns the tragic end and as we contemplate our own frailties it is not business as usual.


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