MK forum

Discuss anything MK here
It is currently Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:45 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:22 am
Posts: 115
The Internet is ablaze with the news of Josh Duggar sexually abusing five girls who ranged from age 5 to unknown (but younger than his age of 14-15). Most were his sisters.

If you're not up on it, [url]read here http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts ... legations/[/url]

With my Facebook regularly stalked by my kids, I thought I'd rather take the conversation here than there, but I would love to know your thoughts on this story. It's late here, so I'll just post a couple of observations:

1) I am absolutely LIVID at In Touch Weekly for posting a story that belongs to the girls - the victims - without their consent. Simply to sell magazines, and likely for a personal agenda against the Duggars (a guess based on the slant on In Touch's Facebook page), they pursued what they call "investigative journalism" and used the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the Duggar (circa 2003) police report. I need to yell, here, I'm sorry, but I really am angry about this: THE STORY OF ABUSE BELONGS TO THE VICTIMS.

This does not mean that one should not notify authorities or pastors or counselors or whomever may HELP, but it DOES mean that a story of child sexual abuse should NOT be just simply told to everyone, without checking with the girls first! With every article, every tweet, every status, they have been revictimized.

2) I've actually been very surprised at the public outrage, not against the Duggars, but against the teenage abuser. I guess maybe I'm used to a missionary culture of "judge not," but people are REALLY angry at him, even though he was "only" 14 at the time of abuse.

I would think this would scare NTM and the adult sexual offenders that New Tribes Mission has hidden. If our stories make the news, or maybe if even one of our stories makes the news, NTM will not survive. In only one day, the public outcry cancelled the Duggar's long-running show and lost Josh Duggar his job over this story - what would our culture do to a missionary organization that hides and refuses to deal with victims and missionary abusers?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 6:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 5030
My Facebook feed too has been absolutely saturated with this story, Dreamwords.

I agree with your points. I too feel incredibly sad for the victims. The world now knows what happened to them years ago, and they did not give consent for their story to be told. I imagine they are not only shocked and embarrassed, but also confused. In the cloistered fundamentalist domain where their molestation took place, they were pressured to respond in a certain way: I imagine they were told that Jesus would want them to forgive their abuser. And so they probably said the words they were told to say. What their hearts were actually feeling, we do not know. And now! Now with this big uproar, are they questioning whether their parents and church leaders and abuser did the right thing? Are they wondering, if they were coached long ago to forgive and move on, whether that was really what should have happened? Are they asking themselves, if the world outside is saying this secret should not have been kept, and their teenaged perpetrator should have been arrested, did their parents make the decisions they did to protect them, or to actually protect the reputation and livelihood of their huge family?

And yes! I too, thought to myself yesterday, this is a hopeful day for us at Fanda Eagles! The uproar and outcry over what a 14-year-old boy did to children, and especially the criticism of the way his parents and other authority figures concealed what had happened, showed that the world today is a different place than it was back in the 1960s when I was growing up. It is no longer considered usual, and to be expected, that adolescent sexual experimentation would put children at risk. And it is no longer okay that family secrets are kept hidden, and criminal activity is shrugged off.

The social media crowd is pouncing on this story with intensified passion precisely because of the hypocrisy it reveals. Christians who preach an unrealistic standard of piety, morality and purity, and yet do not live by those standards in their everyday lives, do deserve the scrutiny of unbelievers. Isn't that exactly what Jesus himself pounced on during his days with us here on earth? Oh ye hypocrites! Ye vipers! Ye whited sepulchres!!

When the sad and sordid stories of NTM MKs are finally told -- and they WILL be told -- expect a strong reaction from the watching world. Christian missionaries are held to a high standard by those who may not themselves live by such standards. If you proclaim one thing while living another, expect to be scrutinized and criticized. Harshly.

Very few people currently in NTM have any idea of the depths of depravity to which NTM missionaries of past decades sank. They don't WANT to know. However, it is important for today's missionaries to understand that when the locked closet doors are pried opened, and the skeletons finally come tumbling out, the entire mission will be affected. Today's mission. Today's missionaries.

This is what we have been trying to tell you. For years. Please hear us.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:04 pm
Posts: 3640
Waiting for the ntm stories to be published
To hear the public outcry
Hoping
Hoping


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:22 am
Posts: 115
I'm actually not a fan of going to the police. If we want parents to do that, we must fix the system. Right now, going to the police results in your little girl being interviewed by a stranger, further traumatizing her in my opinion. What's the result of that? Nothing. Nothing! In the current example, Josh Duggar was still allowed to be among little girls. No disclosure required, no limits set. So a little girl has to tell her story again - which we all know is reliving her story - and it's for no benefit.

Keep in mind, not everyone keeps from telling authorities because of the perp...Most avoid it for the sake of their daughter.

Years ago, I asked a child victim of a teenage cousin, what she wishes would have happened for her. She said, "Believe me. That's the most important thing. Don't go to the police - that was too much for me. Keep him away from me at all times. If he's coming to a family reunion or even a funeral, don't go; don't make me , as a child, have to see him - that tells me you're okay with what he did. Tell anyone who has little girls whom he's in contact with, but don't say my name. Don't label me as the little girl who was molested."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:22 am
Posts: 115
dreamwords wrote:
I'm actually not a fan of going to the police."


I should clarify that I was talking about the example of the Duggars. I'm not a fan of going to the police with a young daughter who probably didn't realize what was done to her and doesn't need it being so pronounced. I would limit this to little daughters abused by a young teen.

If a stranger or adult, or hey, a missionary, was the offender, then it's gloves off!

My reasons for this:
1. Cops are clumsy with their interviews with young children; she'll likely be more traumatized after meeting with them than without. (this system needs to be fixed!)
2. They do nothing to the perp, so her interview was for nothing.
3. Society says once a perp, always a perp, but this is statistically wrong for young teen offenders. I do believe a brain pathway is created, and I do believe he needs to be aware of this temptation for all the rest of his life, but I also believe a young teen has a high chance at not ever being an offender again (look up the stats; there are many that prove this).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 3:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:12 pm
Posts: 710
Holy cow, there is a problem in the States if this is the case!!!!!!

Police are supposed to be trained and there should be teams that deal specifically with children. Don't want to rub anyones nose in it, but police are generally respected by law abiders down here. But then Gary Earl was a cop, so that explains a lot!!!!!!

While I'm ranting, I put up a post on Boz's latest blog. Someone decided it would be good to launch an attack on my narrative and got personal. Just one person came to my defence and then the whole conversation got wiped with no explanation!!!!!!
So what happened to free speech??????? Did I get to close to the truth and the males reading it didn't like being challenged by a female from God knows where (but not one of us, you know what I mean)???????

I am really sorry to see so many of you struggling with this for decade after decade, it is blatantly obvious that there is something wrong with the system if it can't deal with known criminals and victims are shit scared to say anything!!!!!!

Oh well this post will no doubt get wiped too if I go much further, so better shut up before I offend some precious abuser loving male who will get his tits in a tangle because some woman dared challenge his pathetic manhood!!!!!!!!

See ya

Aus


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5218
Well it was certainly a robust exchange of viewpoints on Boz's blog that I read and I can't help get the feeling that the recipient of your wisdom did not like being made to look very foolish. I think to delete the whole conversation has a smell of bias about it, in that I've seen offensive posts left insitu.

While I agree that victims "own" their stories, hiding them under a bushel protects abusers. It comes down to an individual choice, with either choice being respected. With the advent of modern media, little is secure now once it is posted on line. The media makes it's living by sensualisation, in that the more dramatic a story can be made, the better it will sell.
Telling an account of abuse has consequences as does not telling an account.
However the bottom line is that justice cannot be served on the guilty if lips remain sealed, therefore I personally lean towards supporting anyone who is willing to come forward with their account.

In saying that, I feel truly sorry if victims face a system that is predominantly not professionally supportive. This is certainly the opposite of my own area of jurisdiction and I can only hope with pressure that the situation improves for others.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 5030
I love this post from BJUGrace, and I think there are some reading here who will identify with this writer.

Thoughts on learning of the Duggar scandal

Posted on May 23, 2015 by BJUGrace

by anonymous guest poster (Bob Jones University background)


When you wake up from a sound sleep because someone is molesting you, it doesn’t matter to you whether that person is 14 years old or 44 years old.

I hear the story of Josh Duggar and his victims in the news, I read it on the internet, and I am instantly reminded. Reminded of the feeling of groggy confusion and panic. Reminded of what it feels like to wake up and find that your life is changed forever. Reminded of how sexual abuse defiles relationships. Boundaries have been broken, and though you can try to rebuild the boundaries, there is no going back. Things are changed forever, for everyone involved – the victim, the offender, the parents, the siblings, the friends, the future wives and husbands, the future children.

It’s like a squid, spraying out its dark black ink. Concentrated at first, filling the immediate area with its darkness. But over time, it drifts and spreads itself through the water. It may not look as dark as it dilutes and spreads, but it is still present.

When things like this become public, it makes people think. Often they think how this situation would be handled if it struck their family. There are many different perspectives to consider here, and we often are quickest to consider the perspective of the one that we most identify with. Parents ask themselves, “What if this were my son? What would I do? How would I respond?” Wives might wonder, “Would I marry someone if I knew this about his past? Are her children safe?” Some might identify with the offender – they might bear guilt over past experiences of their own, being reminded that they have breached boundaries. Wondering if it makes them evil. Wondering if it was just curiosity or if it was something much worse.

Me, I identify with the women and girls who sit silently at the center of this controversy. Who now have their deepest secrets plastered all over television and the internet; their stories speculated about by politicians, preachers, bloggers, and news analysts. My heart is with them. They are now members of a strange “sisterhood.” One which I also find myself in. The initiation into this sisterhood is not one anyone would wish for; it’s not something we choose. But, here we are.

For many years, I didn’t know this sisterhood existed. I never told anyone, and I didn’t know anyone “like me.” But, accidental friendships became the reward for bold steps I began taking toward healing. And that’s when I learned that I was not alone. I suddenly had friends who were almost complete strangers to me, yet, they understood me more than those closest to me often do. We seem to draw strength from each other. I have been surprised to learn that some of my sister survivors have found healing and peace. Others are moving towards healing, and learning what it means to be free. Others aren’t even sure where the path begins, what healing even means, or where the steps are to begin. I’ve also found, in this Sisterhood of Survivors, that there is a quiet respect for me – I’m not asked the details of my abuse. My friends will tell me they don’t know the answers to some of my questions, but will share their own search for answers. They are patient with me; almost instinctively knowing what I need. Sometimes I need space and privacy. Sometimes I need to laugh. Sometimes I need to talk. They seem to know. They understand. They don’t force me to accept that their path to healing is the same one I must choose. They give me freedom to disagree.

These young women who were molested are now in the public eye, when I’m sure they just want to run away from the world and disappear. These girls have been told that they need to slap a sticker with the word “Forgiveness” on their problems, and move on, and pretend that nothing has changed. We are reminded how wonderful it is that their brother found mercy and forgiveness and the power to change. Their abuser has said, “I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining my life,” without acknowledging that great damage has been done to the lives of his sisters. The parents find strength in saying that God used this to draw each of them closer to Him. These girls somehow become like the family’s sacrificial lambs; their purity and innocence damaged so their brother can learn lessons and their family can grow closer to God. The family moves on as if it never happened. He was just a child who made a mistake. It’s all good now. It’s all in the past.

How awkward, to have to share a life with someone who knows your body in a way that he shouldn’t. And yet, being a survivor myself, I imagine that they feel concern for him and possibly even guilt as he is so publically criticized. It is a big tangled web of emotions and questions. Of feelings that often directly conflict with each other. Of relational messiness.

I will never meet these women that I’ve spent so much time worrying about. But one thing I’m learning in this sisterhood, is that we are very protective of each other. Of each others’ secrets, of each others’ identities, and of each others’ trust. Trust for survivors is a very delicate thing. It is always a risk to trust. But there is healing in knowing that you are not alone. In this sisterhood, we find that our struggles and problems, and weird ways of coping – they are normal. Others have grown impatient with me trying to explain myself, but my sisters are not impatient. And we learn together and draw strength from each other, as we try to help each other navigate the path to freedom.

I hope that the publicity that has been forced upon these women will become a vehicle for survivors to reach out to them. There are many of us out there. Though it is always a risk to speak it; we are often afraid. But, I hope that there are those in the lives of these women who will take that risk. Who can help them peel back the “forgiveness” sticker and say, “That is the destination, but the journey begins miles and miles before it. We’ll worry about the destination later. Let’s try and map out the journey together.”



Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 11:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:22 am
Posts: 115
I don't agree with a lot of the assumptions in that article - assumptions of what the Duggars thought or said to their kids, and assumptions on what they consider forgiveness, and assumptions on how the girls are taking it.

I'm very strongly against child sexual abuse, as you've clearly seen here on this forum, but I do consider a 14yo a child, too. I believe he was a serial molester at the time and he was a danger to little girls. But is he for life? Should he be labeled as a pedophile in his adulthood for what he did as a young teenager?

As I shared in my Gary Earl thread, one of his relatives has let me know that Gary and his pastor/missionary/brother-in-law are smearing my name and my value and my morals based on what they thought I had done as a teenager. I didn't do those things, but if I had, should I be labeled "promiscuous" as Dave Bramsen says I am, because of what Gary says he witnessed me doing at age 17 in the laundry room of the dorm?

This story belongs to the Duggar girls, not to us. It is up to them to say if their family handled it wrongly; it is up to them to say if they forgive their brother; and it's up to them to say if they are doing okay or not.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 2:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:14 am
Posts: 5218
dreamwords wrote:

I would think this would scare NTM and the adult sexual offenders that New Tribes Mission has hidden. If our stories make the news, or maybe if even one of our stories makes the news, NTM will not survive. In only one day, the public outcry cancelled the Duggar's long-running show and lost Josh Duggar his job over this story - what would our culture do to a missionary organization that hides and refuses to deal with victims and missionary abusers?


Taking on a single family is one thing, NTM is a large organisation that has protected itself by less than honest means. However it appears the tide has turned worldwide and even the mighty Catholic Church has been forced to clean up it's act and the British have finally begun investigating high profile child abusers at long last.

As for culture and what it can do. The NTM I grew up in was a culture of bullying and obedience of the stupefied who often participated in the bullying instead of standing up for those who were being kicked. A culture of religious prima donnas who covered their real agendas with a thick sauce of mumbo jumbo and force fed it to a trapped audience.
The culture was sick and perverted.

The media will need a big stick to take on NTM, but the time for carrots has long past.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group