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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:06 am 
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In my old fundamentalist churches/circles, you had to play mind games

As a female you couldn't bring about a new topic
Had to make it seem like the pastor thought of the idea
If you introduced something that brought displeasure, it would come back on you

Any good idea was suppressed if it came from a female

So this is how we would do it

1. Find a local case of child abuse, and make sure the pastor read about it . . ."isn't that awful?"

2. Find out the pastors most respected church leader/author/speaker. Print out an article on how they handled child abuse. Print out other articles too, so it wouldn't be obvious.

3. Start talking about the missionaries. . .who is who, and with what mission . . .the differences between the missions

4. Make sure the budget is clear and concise so the pastor knows exactly how much money they are sending to each missionary

5. Watch All God's Children as a screening for a Bible study

6. Enlist the help of a deacons wife. That deacon might start talking about abuse in missions to the pastor

7. Place stack of letters on pastors desk, including one from well-respected Christian friend/leader suggesting that NTM does not deserve support

8. A few days later, bring it up at a board meeting , as a sidebar

9. A letter comes in the mail, suggesting that the appropriate response is to terminate all support to missionaries associated with NTM

Viola, pastor is a genius! He has saved the world from pedophiles!


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:31 am 
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Location: Upstate NY US
:lol: You are so good Allbetter and also have a good sense of humor. That is so how to do it, but so sad it has to be done this way. Have often used this method. Present an idea wait two week and praise the man who brought up this wonder idea. Used it all the time when I was the only female on a Christian school board. Crazy thing they never caught on. I was shocked when I landed in a Christian work environment where my ideas were sought. There are a few wonderful men out there who value women as equals.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:37 am 
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Glad you found that Shary! It would be a shame to waste the brilliance :D


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:24 am 
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http://leadingfromthesandbox.blogspot.i ... youth.html

Yes, I attended one of the Basic Youth Conflict seminars as a teenager, one of millions that did. In a day when the church was not talking about practical issues, he certainly did. And it drew many adherents, and many cult like followers who believed his every word. Bill Gothard has finally resigned after decades of allegations, problems and abuse of people in his organization.

The problem was how Bill Gothard used the Word. For every issue there was a several step process to resolve them. It was a mechanical approach to solving those "basic youth conflicts" and you didn't need much of the Holy Spirit to do so. Further, his proof texting approach led to some egregious theological errors including the infamous "chain of command" from God to parents to children and of course from husbands to wives to children. 

It was a theology of control that led Bill and his brother to controlling people who worked in his ministry in amazing ways. Words like manipulation, abuse, bondage, legalism, guilt, threats, manipulative God speak and sexual abuse all fit. It was legalism through and through with enough "truth" thrown in to make it sound and seem biblical. But it was far from Biblical in many respects.

One of the interesting byproducts of the black and white approach to every issue by Bill was that his disciples tended to marginalize those who disagreed with them. Churches split over Gothard theology, families were hurt, women were put down and used. When theology causes division (not over orthodox tenets of the faith) you know something is very wrong and it was a regular trait of both Gothard and his followers.

It also allowed the abuse of people using the veneer of God and the Bible. Grace was hard to find and as noted the Holy Spirit and His direction in our lives downplayed for the direction of the "spiritual authority" above us.

What is truly sad is that the bad theology and terrible treatment of people goes back to the sixties and yet he has been able to carry on largely unimpeded all these years. Until now when the weight of the years of abuse finally brought about his resignation. Many, many people have been scarred by his legalism and proof-texting. Many live with great guilt because they violated his "dress code" or "definition of Christian music." Many know they don't measure up to God because of what God "requires" (by Gothard's definition).

Some lessons from all this?

We should be disciples of no man or woman but Jesus alone.
If anyone has all the answers they don't have the answers.
When theology divides beware.
When theology is used to control people it is not from Jesus.
When legalism rather than grace is the focus, it is not from Jesus.
When rules not found in Scripture are propagated, it is rarely from Jesus.
Check out the texts being used by yourself. Many of Gothard's proof texts do not say what he says they do.
When many evangelical scholars take exception to someone's teaching, pay attention (many did).
When there are hints of immorality and money misuse or poor board oversight of a ministry - stay away (there were).
When there is a mechanistic answer to every problem, forget it. It is not how God works. 
When a ministry's workplace is toxic something is very, very wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:42 am 
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Thanks, MB. I was just thinking yesterday how my folks went to one of his seminars. Very obvious now, in looking back, at the influence he had in our family.

Bill Gothard right after 6 years in the Army Reserves--we knew who was boss!

Good insights, MB. Lots of lessons learned.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:43 pm 
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mosquito bite wrote:
http://leadingfromthesandbox.blogspot.in/2014/03/bill-gothard-and-how-his-basic-youth.html
...
Some lessons from all this?

We should be disciples of no man or woman but Jesus alone.
If anyone has all the answers they don't have the answers.
When theology divides beware.
When theology is used to control people it is not from Jesus.
When legalism rather than grace is the focus, it is not from Jesus.
When rules not found in Scripture are propagated, it is rarely from Jesus.
Check out the texts being used by yourself. Many of Gothard's proof texts do not say what he says they do.
When many evangelical scholars take exception to someone's teaching, pay attention (many did).
When there are hints of immorality and money misuse or poor board oversight of a ministry - stay away (there were).
When there is a mechanistic answer to every problem, forget it. It is not how God works. 
When a ministry's workplace is toxic something is very, very wrong.

Does all of this sound strangely familiar and very much like another organization we all know of?


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:07 pm 
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In case you haven't seen this yet, Bill Gothard himself issued a statement recently.

I find it repugnant.

His letterhead says, "Bill Gothard, Ph.D. Dedicated to helping youth and families make wise decisions".


http://billgothard.com/content/statement-bill-gothard

A Statement from Bill Gothard

I have withheld this statement in order to honor the request of the Board of Directors to wait until an initial review has taken place. As the review continues, I now want to make this statement.

God has brought me to a place of greater brokenness than at any other time in my life. It is a grief to realize how my pride and insensitivity have affected so many people. I have asked the Lord to reveal the underlying causes and He is doing this.

For many years I have been building the Institute but losing my first love for the Lord. God warns “I know thy works, and thy labour . . . Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent. . . ” (Revelation 2:2, 4, 5). I was finding value and affirmation from the accomplishments of the ministry and those involved in it instead of filling this void in my life with God and His love. I have repented in deep sorrow. However, over the years many people have been offended in different ways because of my lack of genuine love.

I put the Institute and its goals ahead of people and their needs. Standards became more important than relationships. People who didn’t “measure up” were cut off and those who were not seen as adding value to the ministry were treated as though they were expendable. The more I have listened to people describe their experiences the more grieved and sorrowful I have become.

My wrong focus produced a further consequence. Families were made to feel that they must “measure up.” This resulted in some parents putting undue pressure on their sons and daughters in order for the family to be accepted. When there was a lack of love or consistency, sons and daughters saw this as hypocrisy and rejected it. Also, many felt that the expectations where so high that they could never measure up to them. This resulted in a feeling of deep defeat.

This emphasis on outward appearance was also manifested by bringing selected young people to serve at the Headquarters and causing others to feel rejected and offended by my favoritism. My actions of holding of hands, hugs, and touching of feet or hair with young ladies crossed the boundaries of discretion and were wrong. They demonstrated a double-standard and violated a trust. Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent.

I have failed to live out some of the very things that I have taught. I am committed to learning from my failures by God’s grace and mercy, and do what I can to help bring about Biblical reconciliation as Jesus commands: “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift” (Matthew 5:23-24).

More than anything I want to make right what I have done wrong and deepen my relationship with the Lord. I trust in God’s undeserved mercy and pray that those whom I have offended would find grace to forgive me. I know that I do not deserve this. I would certainly appreciate your prayers during this time that God would bring healing to those who have been so deeply affected by my actions. I am grateful for the opportunities I have had thus far to be reconciled with individuals and it is my goal to contact as many others as I can, fully hear them, and do whatever I can to bring about Biblical reconciliation.

My greatest offense has been against God. I have earnestly sought His mercy and forgiveness and have asked Him to allow me to experience more of Him and the power of His resurrection.

Sincerely,
Bill Gothard



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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:43 am 
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Recovering Grace posted an excellent response:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/response-to-gothards-statement/


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:40 pm 
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Bill Gothard, ABWE, NTM and many other religious groups, it's all the same. Start out with good intentions, but are soon hijacked by men with egos and alternative agendas.
Don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty much done with organised religion, just a simple faith and a simple life around it for me. To much hurt, pain and suffering in big expensive monuments and organisations that no longer care about the very people that keep them going. So why bother?????


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Gothard
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:50 pm 
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"Just a simple faith and a simple life around it for me."

Yes. For me too!


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