MK forum

Is anyone on here brave enough to talk about a very sore subject, spirituality? Some might say I'm in an enviable position . . .d/t not having any reputation left to harm, and thus able to speak freely. I'm sorry if you can't. That's OK. It's not like I don't know what that's like either. You're always welcome to PM me. It's just that I'm wondering how you came about as an adult, to believe what you do today. With all the rot that we grew up with, the sanctimonious watching of other's souls, are you able to believe as you were taught? Sometimes I wish I could just open the Bible for the first time myself. Instead I brace myself to open the Good Book. At one point I thought, ok, if I buy a new Bible, that didn't have all the scratchings in the margins of a dutiful MK, then maybe it would sound better. It worked for awhile. I do find myself able to pray, which is a great comfort. Church, er, sometimes, and only if I go to a really weird church that demands nothing of me . . .what about you?

I made my stand, values and beliefs my own when I went into Bible School. I realized that Dad wasn't there demanding dresses to the knee, devotions or no supper, etc. I remember the day that I decided that it was time to set my own beliefs into place and no longer living under my parents smoldering eyes. I must admit, the were the same just about, but the burden of doing it for someone else was gone. It was now my life, my convictions, my mistakes, my moving ahead.

Yes, Church is still a part of my life BUT NOT EVERY TIME THE DOORS ARE OPEN. No those days are gone. My walk with the Lord is important. My testimony is important and all that know me know that I am a Christian by my actions and life. I have found out over the years that no matter what I do, I will never make my parents happy, Even if I am the only one of the family to follow in their shoes. Only 2 of us go to Church and are/did raise our kids in a Christian environment. They have set a double standard for us 'kids' They have always made it hard for my children and expected them to be perfect and do no wrong...when their cousins were living like the ..... Need I say more. My girls are all happily married and are raising Christian families. PTL

Allbetter, I no longer have a faith that follows everything I was taught as a child. But I do have faith. I too know how it feels to be a disappointment to my parents. I have tried very hard to communicate to my own children that I have never taken on the burden of producing clones of myself in my offspring: spiritually or in any other way. Each of us are on our own personal, unique journey, and I try to embrace that for myself and for others.

Spirituality: that is a different subject. All of us have a spiritual component. I no longer subscribe to the NTM/fundamentalist definition of "being (acting) spiritual". My husband, a hospital chaplain, has written a book about spirituality and how our spirit enters into, affects, and is affected by every facet of our complicated lives as pilgrims on this earth.

I know that you are not alone in your search ... many of us can certainly relate!

All life long we are to personally study God's Word . We need our minds renewed, our hearts are deceitful. We can't just go on somebody else's beliefs. I love the fact that I have had people in my life that challenged what I thought to be true and made me think about it some more. I still have lots to learn. Life is a journey. I grew up in NTM, I am in NTM as an adult and I don't think it is NTM's sole responsibility to make sure I know what I am to believe. At this stage in life, I don't think I can blame NTM for my own personal weaknesses in my spiritual life. Before God I must study and learn and nowadays with internet etc we can even have the joy of sitting under the teaching of lots of good Bible teachers.......even though we are in tribal locations. My kids can't just believe things because they hear it from me, they too have to study and know God in their own personal way. We are all learning and growing together. We are sometimes going to be misunderstood by other people or disappoint people that we dearly love, but that is how it is in this world. Some day in the future we will have heaven to enjoy! For now, we are in a battle and a lot of that battle is going on in our own hearts and minds. I hope to keep learning and I long to be an encouragement to others who also want to learn more and know our Creator God better.

Dbarney, one of the best outcomes of me not going to church (about five years) was that mom and dad were so grateful for my return to fellowship, that they stopped all the silly church comparison stuff around me. They are much harder on my brothers that have been on the straight and narrow all along. I guess I'm on the good side of the double standard.

Raz, what is the difference between faith and spirituality?

I guess you are allbetter, LOL maybe that is the problem,,,I stayed on the straight and narrow and they didn't. Good to see you on. Did you get my PM?

Allbetter, the definition of spirituality I had in mind was the fact that we are all created as spirit beings. (I know there are other definitions and usages, but this is what I was referring to in my post.) Even people who are not Christians usually have a spiritual component in their lives.

Here is a quote from the introduction to my husband's book:

"Spirits, we are told ... are eternal beings. I don't claim to understand the theology of all that, but I cannot deny that life has a mystical component, a verve, an energy, a metaphysical quality that I can only dance around in reverent glee. Maybe the spiritual side of life is meant only for us to enjoy without understanding it or describing it. Indeed, the more I try to capture the the soul of life in words, the more complex and unexplainable it becomes, and the less I seem to understand it. At the end of the day, I just sit back with a reflective smile on my face ... and enjoy."

For me, embracing my spiritual side has to do with the incomprehensible that is within me. (My spirit ... not to be confused with the Holy Spirit.)

Faith, for me, is the embracing of the incomprehensible mystery that is way, way beyond who and what I myself am. Faith is my belief in Someone else. My trust in His unconditional love, and His never ending Grace. The part of me that reaches toward Him in faith is not my own brain, my logic. It is my spirit.

Is that making any sense?

Yes! So glad there wasn't an outline

Thanks to all of you . . .

Psalm57--I'm with you--I'm way too old to blame anyone else for my spiritual weaknesses. . .I just wish I didn't have them!

It's not that I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Instead of saying, we must, we must, can you give real-time specific examples/stories of how your faith has changed? Because I'm feeling condemned, (and then condemned some more by saying the word "feeling.")

There's quite a lot that has shaken my faith recently.

Allbetter,
I never participated in a forum til this one and it is hard to participate and be clear and helpful. I don't mean in any way to add to your feelings of condemnation.
I used to feel guilty about many things. I still do. But I have changed in some areas. First let me tell you some of the books and teaching that have helped me. I enjoy learning from Rc Sproul. He is doing a great study on the book of Romans. I enjoy books by a variety of authors. Self=Talk, Soul Talk by Jennifer Rothschild is one I just read. MARGIN by Richard Swenson changed my life. I was reminded in that book that when God created me, he gave me a body in need of exercise and sleep. So......if I allow myself the pleasure of going running regularly I am honoring God. I no longer feel guilty when I am out running and I don't tell myself that I should be studying language instead of exercising. When I need sleep, I sleep. God created me to need sleep. I can't work every minute of every day. It is not my responsibility to reach every tribal person. Sure, by God's grace, I can have a small part.....but I don't live every day scolding myself for not meeting every need around me. I am purposely choosing to thank God for the energy I have (little as it is) and thanking Him for my small part in showing love to a world so full of darkness and fear . I don't have enough energy to be scolding myself constantly about all the if onlys.
Several years back NTM switched from talking lots about culture to talking about animism and worldview. I figured if I was going to have a part in helping somebody else change their worldview and obtaining a Biblical Worldview, then I better know what the worldview of my own culture is and I better get busy making sure my own worldview was Biblical. God provided an opportunity for my husband and me to attend a conference by Del Tackett when we were on furlough. Then we bought his DVD series called TRUTH Project (from Focus on the Family) and we as a family have watched those several times. Ravi Zacharias is another author that challenges my thinking and makes me want to know God better. Kay Arthur is another author that I have learned from.
I don't even know for sure if I helped answer your questions. I think for me as life goes on I keep coming up with more questions and as time goes on I realize I have so much to learn. I do want to know and love God more each day. I just wish sometimes I could rewind my life and start all over again. We can't learn it all in a lifetime, or at least I can't. I don't have answers to everybody's questions and I really am not much of a theologian. I love it that God understands me and even my complex emotions that trip me up sometimes. I love it that I can trust HIM with the so many things I still don't understand.