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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:19 pm 
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I think that we are forgetting that we have the luxury of hindsight and we should be careful that we do not loose site of that.I can not speak for anyone else but I have to keep reminding myself that we are adults under a different age. Think back to the 60's and 70's and 80's it was not until the late 80''s that we in America actually talked openly about child sexual abuse. It was usually a family secret, I have mentioned before on this site that my husbands family faced child abuse from a neighbor but instead of confronting the neighbor they moved and thought they put it behind them. Even the police didn't deal with child abusers the way they do now. It was different.
I also think what we are talking about it so horrific how could a sensible Christian that went through training and bible school with many of those that worked at the schools possibly fit in their mind that some of those very people where harming the kids they were put in place to protect???? It is just so big and horrible that until a few months ago I never would have believed that this was happening right in the dorms where I lived and to the kids I hung out with?? I was there I interacted with them and I had no idea so how could we possibly think that everyone should have known?? Isn't that a predictors M.O. to pick out the weak or the vulnerable and separate and harm them? I am sure that NTM leadership did not do the best they could have But I also think that we are expecting them to deal with this issue the way it is dealt with today and we are forgetting that that is not the way it was. DO NOT GET ME WRONG if there is negligence that need to be dwelt with but most importantly the pedophiles need to be brought to justice.
This is going to be a long hard road and for many of us who have chosen to fight this fight it is not going to be easy and when I think of those that I know who parent or parents harmed my friends I am torn because I feel for them yet at the same time I know that the parent needs to be stopped. Just because a pedophile changes his or her address not not mean that they stop abusing it means they have new victims and that is why I choose to fight this I want to help protect kids that are in harms way today.
I will say that the bulk of the people that were on the field were good people and perhaps not all perfectly functioning families but they all were not bad eggs nor were are they all deserving of being lumped into this pool of NTM's that were some how horrible. Many are great people that followed the call of God and sacrificed to go and share the gospel to the lost. Could they have done it better? Would they? now that they know what happened to their kids YES a thousand times yes but they can not and for so many supportive parents they are just as devastated as we are now that they are finding out the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:32 pm 
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I was talking to a colleague yesterday who was raised in Ireland. He was telling me one of his friends fathers inappropritately touched him. The police were informed. The man never offended again after having both arms broken by an officer. Nothing was said, the family just moved.
So you are quite correct, they were different times, matters were dealt with differently. But sexual offending is crime and needs to be punished. In some societies justice would still be served as happened in Ireland many years ago, but in "western" countries the law works differently now. And eye for an eye is not modern practise.
There is no denying that good people have been caught up in this mess. Alas good people are still in denial often and some will never know because others make sure they will never hear about it. That is what has happened in my family, my mother will never know the truth, because it is in my fathers best intrerest she doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Yes, Wounded, you do make some very valid points. Times were different back then. So true. Parents did not think of their own children as having any rights. Many were very harsh in their methods of discipline and training, and they justified it by using Scripture.
But even though we acknowledge that many things were viewed differently back then, the laws of our land say that child abuse is wrong, and criminal, whether it occurred in 2011 or 1961. Not only was it wrong to sexually molest a child decades ago, it was also wrong to abuse them physically, emotionally or spiritually.
We also understand the universal tendency of human beings to respond in the wrong way when sexual abuse or other abuse is discovered. Not only inside NTM, but outside it as well, more often than not, people disbelieve the victim, deny the abuse, minimize or cover up the guilt, move the perpetrator somewhere else, conceal or destroy evidence, and do everything in their power to maintain a deceptive veneer of "all is well", whether in a dysfunctional family, school, mission field, mission, church, or organization.
We do understand all those dynamics. But I believe we are still morally bound to seek out the truth and hold people accountable for what they did.
I think that present-day NTM would back me up, in saying that if it is wrong now, it was also wrong then. It would be good if Brian Shortmeier, Andy Kline or Tibby Westcott would speak out and say that. Because I think that is what they believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:26 pm 
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I agree completely Raz it is a crime and it needs to be dwelt with


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Even though things were done differently back then (not just in NTM), G.R.A.C.E. still held leadership responsible for how they handled the abuses that were reported to them. It's pretty remarkable that they did. Let that forever be a statement to all leadership everywhere that they will be held responsible for their decisions in handling abuse. This will prevent abuse!

It was hard to see someone who used to be in PNG and was loved by many of us MKs be named in the Grace Report as being guilty in how he handled the Fanda abuse cases wrongly. He was the one who put a stop to the "Reign of Terror" in the Oliguti School era and he stood up against abusers back then (for awhile at least). But..., by him being held responsible and by it being made public (even though in the end the "penalty" amounted to little or nothing), I believe more abuse will be prevented because leadership will be more careful, knowing they too will be held responsible.


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:53 pm 
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I agree.

There are so many fallen heros. It is a great shame. NTM could have been a great experience for all of us, who knows, if Bemused had had that wonderful childhood that was promised he too might have been a missionary himself (although he would probably not called himself a Sympathetic Agnostic :o ). Alas it didn't eventuate, life went in a completely different direction. I have no regrets for the way life has turned out and am grateful for being given the opportunity courtesy of Fanda Eagles to sort out the remaining unanswered questions in my own mind.

Heros do fall and for them it is a longer way down. But real hero's when they fall, have the courage to stand up and say "I got it wrong, I will try to make ammends".


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Raz wrote:
I think that present-day NTM would back me up, in saying that if it is wrong now, it was also wrong then. It would be good if Brian Shortmeier, Andy Kline or Tibby Westcott would speak out and say that. Because I think that is what they believe.


It is what we believe Raz. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Nice to hear from thee, thanks for that affirmation. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Aghast wrote:
There are the Adult MK children of Pedophiles.
And there are the Adult MK children of Leadership who are afraid their parents might have been involved in covering up abuse.
Both have a strong tendency to protect the parents. I've experienced that this is just as strong from MKs whose parents were on leadership as with MKs whose parents were abusers.
Also a very big reason that some victims will not speak out is because it will hurt their MK friends, who are the children of these pedophiles and leadership.
I appreciate your honesty Bemused!


There is no obligation to anyone, there is only an obligation to the truth, where ever that may lie.
Sometimes in life one has to draw a line in the sand and say, " that is my line in the sand, stand on this side of it with me and I will respect you as a colleague and/or friend, stand on the other side and we will have to agree to disagree, I will not hate you, but I will not agree with you".
A true friend will still be your friend, no matter if you have a difference of opinion. By drawing the line in the sand you will gain the respect of quality friends at possibly the expense of fine weather friends, but you will also respect yourself and that is vital.


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 Post subject: Re: Name that Pedophile
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Andy wrote:
Raz wrote:
I think that present-day NTM would back me up, in saying that if it is wrong now, it was also wrong then. It would be good if Brian Shortmeier, Andy Kline or Tibby Westcott would speak out and say that. Because I think that is what they believe.


It is what we believe Raz. Thanks.


As was said by GRACE in regards to NTM way back when in a very nice way: Words are fine, but we have to wait for the accompanying actions.

Today we still say in the nicest way, and trying not to lose patience, but standing for truth:
Your words are fine, Andy, but what about your actions?

King David's finest hour was when he humbled himself and admitted that he had sinned before God and man. He exhibited true repentance. What would NTM have to do to bring about justice for these crimes? And how soon should they have done it? If God wants to preserve NTM, He will take care of that. Crimes are to be settled here on earth by law. God will take care of sin either here or there.

It has been a rather long wait for the actions that accompany your beliefs.
It seems that we are still waiting..........


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