MK forum

Hello, ornerythornery, I had suspected I knew who you were and now I do. Please say hi to your wife for me, give her a big hug. I think she should write in - she had a good number of things happen to her as well, especially in terms of paternalism and racism. I´m so proud of you for going to bat this way and for your whole family and in laws. Let me say that your parents are always remembered very fondly by me - I wish so badly they had been around for that last year, I think we would have suffered less trauma. I´d also like to apologize for not following through, there might have been a way for me to bring more things forward if I had not spiraled down into bitterness so much. One of the things that has kept me from writing was the fear of hurting your parents, they are/were so loyal to NTM.

I trust you to do well with what you´re doing (or maybe I should say, I trust your wife even more . Keep it up, I´m not sure how you find the time - and when/if it comes to the point where something needs to be signed on the dotted line, count me in - I´ve still got my RNE.

abração

Thank you ornerythornery, for your story. My husband has bipolar and I am his carer and I was getting worried about you, seeing the signs and all. Please look after yourself and listen to your wife! I really apreciate you and your contribution on this forum!

Red Baron may be an abuser, abusee or off his rocker. He is certainly a poor speller! What he is saying is certainly of the devil.

Even so, it may be that he is a church member who believes that missionaries are perfect saints and to say such things as we are saying we must be of the devil. The problematic doctrines, administration style and attitudes are not just in NTM. They are the same in many of the sending churches. Many who are sticking by the mission probably truly believe they are doing the right thing.

The other day I learned that a few years ago at the church we currently attend, a man who was daily raping his adopted daughter was exposed. The person telling me the story said that she was in church, the man was in the front boo-hooing with the pastors gathered around him. She stood up in the middle of it and very expressively asked "Are you CRAZY? Why are you comforting this rapist? You should be comforting that little girl that he has been raping all these years! She was advised to sit down, to not get so emotional. She declined the 'offer' and continued with right to the point and oh so true statements. She said things like, so what that he apologized to you. (the pastors elders) You aren't the ones he offended. He should apologize to the one he offended. She said, sure he's sorry. He's sorry he got caught! She said, he should be in jail, not here in church with us. Later, she said to the pastor who told her he wanted to "counsel the man to restore him and his daughter and the Christian family" This wonderfully outspoken woman said to him, "What Christian family?" She is gracious though. She 'defended' the pastors, saying it was because they were naive.

One point I want to make from this is for us to be gracious to those who are concerned about our outrage. They may just be naive. Wrong, but naive. They are still thinking like legalists. I was there. I'm not now. I need to extend grace as I help them to learn grace. I am not referring to all of them. I am referring to those who didn't know about this before now, and finding out now, are feeling torn because of the conflict with their taught theology and perhaps worrying that they are sinning if they go against the leadership.

I cheered for what this lady said in church. As she told me I asked, "You really said that in church?" Yes, she did! I told her we need more people like her. I initially thought that I would have been one who stood with her. (after she was told to sit and she kept talking others began to stand and say they were in agreement with her)
Then I got to thinking about it and realized that in that situation I would feel torn. I would agree with what she was saying but worry about it being said then. The belief that it is wrong to speak out publicly against the leaders has been deeply instilled. Additionally, I am a woman. "Women aren't to speak in church", ya know? We were cast out of a church because I questioned the pastor about how he was handling some things. It was in private, not at all public. We weren't actually cast out as much as there was a knife in our back pushing us out. Of course, the pastor did it in such a way that no one else knew. I'm sure he said something negative after we left. He had said things about others who left before us. Trusting him, I had believed what he said about them.

My point from all that is again, to give an idea how those who, for example are worried about us posting on facebook and other things are probably sincerely trusting the rightness of New Tribes, or feeling confused but needing to stay with what they think is true. I am thrilled that this woman stood up and said what she did. I also think I would be afraid to do it myself because it would feel so wrong. (woman speaking in public challenging the leaders) -- After hearing her story I am going to be thinking more about the right way for me to relate to the leaders. -- Many NTM missionaries (I hope) will be stirred by questions in response to this situation in the same way that I am because of what this woman did. There is the potential for eyes blinded be legalism to be opened to see grace. This is true for both the guilty and the innocent among those who are part of New Tribes.

I hope that I can be gracious to the person even while standing strong in righteous anger against the sin. God is grace and truth, mercy and judgment. One does not negate or exclude the other.

Í keep vowing I won't post anymore, that I've said what has to be said, e pronto, vamos em frente, prá que ficar amassando barro, but I keep coming back and reading the posts and then I have an idea and so I post.

Thanks for your story ornery.

MKSheri thanks for your ideas about the subculture of church and missions. I am outside that subculture now but I remember it well. Women are to be silent and submissive etc. etc. and you mustn't speak against the leaders and forgiveness means sweeping things under the carpet. I think it's a subculture that is very problematic and engenders violence against those who do not have power in that cultural group - women and children and in my opinion does not follow the spirit of the New Testament. I think that what has happened to MKs in the schools is a product of these distinct subcultural attitudes and the whole subculture should be forced to rethink its interpretation of some passages of the Apostle Paul I went to both C&MA and NTM schools from the time I was 6 years old and remember well the manipulation of our young minds via the use of Bible verses and religion in general.

In regards to pedophiles, I saw a psychiatrist giving an interview on TV and she stated that pedophiles are psychopaths (sp?), highly manipulative people, who can manipulate the child into silence and maniplate the adults around into thinking that nothing bad is happening. She also says they don't change. They can show repentance to manipulate a situation and get out of being punished. Food for thought!

I have read a very good book on forgiveness called Forgiveness is a choice written by Robert Enright, professor of psychology at University of Wisonsin. He deals with forgiveness in abusive situations. It is a very practical book and very clear that forgiveness does not mean reconcialiation. Reconciliation is another step that can only occur in relationships that are not abusive. Abuse removes reconciliation. Forgiveness, according to Enright, should be sought because it helps the victim return to a complete life and not live in chains to the past. The victim is empowered by forgiveness for then the abuser loses his/her hold on the victim. The emphasis in this book is on the victim and not on the abuser ie forgiveness is not encouraged to se the abuser free.

Thanks for your story, Ornery. It's so great to know you are okay, that you have the help you need each day. I knew you had a wonderful wife!

Thank you for doing what you know...for taking the steps that should have been taken years ago, for caring enough. You are brave, and I love you for it.

Hurt-n-Hopeful

Ornery: Thanks for your story. I long suspected I knew you and you know who I am. I was one of the students to whom you taught Algebra (or was it Geometry?) when you were spending a hiatus in Brasil.

I also knew firsthand of your caring and compassionate nature because I will never forget a night when I woke up feeling nauseous and did not make it to the boy's dorm bathroom in time. The screen door of my room was littered with, shall we say, debris. After returning from the bathroom with the intention of cleaning up my screen door, you appeared and graciously volunteered to clean it up and told me to go back to bed. I don't know if you remember this episode or not, but I do.

Like you, I also attended law school. There's one connection. My mother also grew up with your mother in the hills of Kentucky. Another connection.

From the above, let me just say that while I cannot empathize with the pain and ostracization you and yours had to undergo, because I know you and your family, the pain does, indeed, cut deep and I pray for all concerned daily.

Previously, I posted under another alias, but thought if I posted anything more under that alias in response to other's posts, I might give away an identity they wished to protect. In any event, after your most recent posts, I wanted to let you know I pray for you and stand with you and yours . . .always.

Your friend,

Publius

I was a non-NTM MK that attended Via somewhere around 1991-92...??? It saddens me deeply to hear of the abuse that took place. I know there were, among the sinful and despicable people that we called "uncle" and "aunt", also some loving and caring godly examples that made my time at Via a very fond memory. Nonetheless, as I read of the incidents that occured, my heart goes out to each of you that were abused or witnessed abuse.

In hindsight, I see what certainly may have been considered "spiritual abuse" and there were teachers that I felt I had to walk on eggshells around (although I can't exactly explain why).

Although the circumstances surrounding the creation of this forum are horrible, it is good to be connected to each of you... even if it is somewhat limited behind the veil of anonymity.

I've been reading... just now writing and seriously impressed by how many varieties of smile-y faces are at your disposal to the left. Very nice. Just to name a few. I don't even know what I am going to say. What can I say. I join with you Mr. Thornery in your frustration and outrage. We grew up together down south. Well... mainly with your sisters you are soooo old. I have a deep love for your family. I love your sisters like they are my own. Your father has a dear place in my heart. This blog has brought back floods of memories I would have rather not recalled.
I remember being confined to my room for weeks on end for merely being present when a child broke the rules. I remember the shame, the guilt. Going days without sleep just laying awake feeling guilty but not know what it was I did wrong. I remember us boys conspiring to murder Frank Parker our dorm dad for what he was doing to little girls. We had it all planned out. After a particular episode I wrote him a letter telling him I was going to cut his head off in his sleep if he went into a certain little girl's room again while she was dressing, and signed my name. I was 9. Lack of passion and courage has never been a problem for me... tact and wisdom... well lets keep praying.
Man... I'm just logging in to say with a ship anchor for a lump in my throat, and a hoover dam worth of tears just behind my eyes... I am so sorry for the pain and grief you and your beautiful family has experienced.



PS. Our caravan was better than your opala cause it had a backintheback.