MK forum

In England, where soccer was invented, they have many brilliant teams. And if one looks closely they are made up of many players from all around the globe, but all with a passion for the game. This forum has players from all around the globe and from all walks of life, united by the fact that we had some involvement with a common event, namely abuse that occured within the confines of our tenures in NTM.
I personally like having the opportunity to knock the ball round with others from around the globe, some of whom I am pleased to say have become good friends.
Now assuming we are playing on the same team (although I realise guests from visiting teams are welcome on this open forum), we should really get on with the game and stop the injury time. I'll have a word to the ref about the person who got your name wrong (honest it wasn't me) and they can sort that out.
Personal messages welcome, never know I might turn out to be someone who is rather interesting to play ball with (gauranteed to be rather different).
Right whistles gone, I've put the ball back in play, it's Christmas, them Reds are tucked under the beds, play on .

..to no one there. However, WE are there, aren't we?

Sounds good to me

This might be encouraging to someone:


Forgiveness is not

1. Approving or Diminishing
2. Enabling Sin
3. Denying a Wrongdoing
4. Waiting for an Apology
5. Forgetting
6. Ceasing to Confront the Pain
7. A One Time Event
8. Neglecting Justice
9. Trusting
10. Reconciliation

I find that Pastor Mark Driscoll's explanation on this is very accurate and helpful.
(See original post with video at http://blog.marshillchurch.org/2010/09/27/10-things-forgiveness-is-not/)

And I say this … with a tremendous sense of love and empathy and compassion and hope for you. But you need to forgive that person or those people who have wounded you most deeply. …

Because I think many Christians do not rightly ascertain what forgiveness truly is and is not, and so I’ve got a long list for you:

1. Forgiveness is not approving or diminishing sin.
It’s not saying, “Well, it’s okay. Nobody’s perfect. Everybody makes a mistake,” or, “It’s not a really big deal. Worse things have happened.” No, it is a big deal! It’s so big that God died for it. So don’t dishonor the cross of Jesus and approve or diminish something that required the death of God.

2. Forgiveness is not enabling sin.
I see this frequently with wives who misunderstand submission. “Okay, the husband is the head of the home, he’s supposed to lovingly lead.” Great. He’s supposed to lovingly lead by following Jesus, and if he’s not following Jesus, the wife shouldn’t follow him because her ultimate allegiance is to Jesus and the first job description of the wife is to be a helper. And sometimes husbands are foolish. They make stupid decisions financially. They make reckless decisions spiritually. They buck godly, spiritual authority trying to correct them. And in the name of forgiving them, the wife comes along and enables him. She just is complicit in his rebellion and sin and folly.

You can forgive someone without enabling their sin, participating in it. You can have a friend or a family member who is an addict, for example, you can forgive them without enabling them. Forgiving is not enabling. Forgiving can even include confronting and rebuking, and sometimes it must.

3. Forgiveness is not denying a wrongdoing.
“It didn’t happen. I forgot all about it. I just moved on. I pretend like it never happened. I didn’t let it affect me.” That’s not true. It’s not the denial of a wrongdoing. Forgiveness is not denying that you were sinned against.

4. Forgiveness is not waiting for an apology.
Some of you say, “I will forgive them as soon as they say they’re sorry.” I hate to break it to you, some people are never going to apologize. Some people are going to continue in their destructive, rebellious, and foolish life course. Some people will be stubborn and religious and self-righteous and they’ll never confess or admit. Some people will move away, you’ll never speak with them again. Some people will die before they articulate repentance. And so you forgive them before they apologize.

5. Forgiveness is not forgetting.
This is one of the great Christian myths. “Well, we forgive and forget.” No we don’t! You can’t forgive and forget. You can’t. You were raped, molested, abandoned, beaten, abused, cheated on, betrayed, lied about. “Forget it”? You can’t forget it. It’s impossible. And some will appeal to Bible books like Jeremiah, where it says that God will remember their sin no more. And they’ll say, “See? God doesn’t remember our sin.” And let me tell you this, God does remember our sin. He’s omniscient, he’s all knowing, he forgets nothing, he knows everything. Right? It’s not like God’s in heaven going, “I forgot a whole bunch of things.” He would cease to be God.

What does it mean that God remembers their sin no more? It means that God chooses not to interact with us based upon what we’ve done, but instead interact with us based upon what Christ has done. It means that he chooses to see us as new creations and he chooses to work for a new future. It means that at the forefront of God’s thinking toward us is not all of the sin that we’ve committed, but all the work that Jesus has done for us and in us and, by grace, will do through us. But it’s not like God has no idea what you did yesterday. He forgets nothing.

And I see this sometimes in counseling, where one person will sin against another person and they’ll say, “Well, you shouldn’t even remember that.” It’s impossible. I had one situation recently. I looked at the husband, I was like, “You slept with her best friend. She’s not going to forget that ever. Now, she can choose not to interact with you in light of that. She could choose to forgive you. She can choose to not be stewing on that every minute of every day and seething. But she’s never going to forget that this happened because it was cataclysmic.”

6. Forgiveness is not ceasing to feel the pain.
Just because it hurts doesn’t mean you’ve failed to forgive. It still hurts. Some of you have had horrible things done to you. Horrible things done to you. With all sincerity, I’m sorry. And it would be so cruel to say, “Well, if you’ve forgiven them, it shouldn’t hurt anymore.” Well, sure it does. See, we don’t hear in the Bible that all the tears are wiped from our eyes until the resurrection of the dead in the final unveiling of the kingdom. It means people are crying all the way to Jesus. It still hurts. It’s okay for it to bother you.

7. Forgiveness is not a onetime event.
It’s not like you forgive someone and it’s over. Sometimes, they keep sinning, so you need to keep forgiving. Or sometimes you forgive them, but there are emotional moments where it feels fresh.

There’s one woman that I know, her husband committed adultery on her. And he earnestly repented and she honestly forgave him and they have sought biblical counseling and they have worked it out. But she confesses there are times, sometimes even at church, where her husband is doing nothing wrong, and it’s been some years, that she’ll just see him talking to another woman, maybe even a mutual friend, and just the sight of him with another woman causes her to feel all of that betrayal again and it rises up in her soul. And she needs to forgive him again for what he did in the past. Sometimes forgiveness is something that is regularly required.

8. Forgiveness is not neglecting justice.
You can forgive someone and call the police and have them arrested. You can forgive someone and testify against them in court. Romans 13 says to obey the government. They’d say, “I thought you forgave me.” “I do. I forgive you. But you’ve committed a crime. You’ve broken the law. And so these are the consequences.” If you’ve stolen, you need to pay it back. If you’ve lied, you need to go tell the truth. It’s not a neglecting of justice. You can forgive and pursue justice.

9. Forgiveness is not trusting.
I hear this all the time. “My dad molested me. He said he’s sorry. Can he babysit my kids?” Answer? No way. No way. “My boyfriend or husband hit me, but he said he’s sorry. Should we just pick up where we left off and keep going?” No way. See, trust is built slowly. It’s lost quickly. Trust is built slowly.

Those of you, now hear this, I’m your pastor who loves you. Let me put an airbag around this. For those of you who are naive and gullible, trust is to be given slowly, lost quickly. Some of you give your whole heart away and never take it back. Give it away slowly and if someone sins against you grievously, trust has to be rebuilt over time. It’s not trusting. It’s not trusting. Some people can be trusted in time with fruit and keeping with repentance after they’ve gotten help. Other people should never be trusted because the risk is simply too high. This is particularly true with children who are vulnerable. We need to be exceedingly careful with who we trust.

10. Forgiveness is not reconciliation.
It’s not that you’re friends and you hang out and everything’s okay. You’re close and it’s back to normal. Not at all. It takes one person to repent. It takes one person to forgive. It takes two people to reconcile. That’s why Paul says, “In as much as it is possible with you, seek to live at peace with all men.” Here’s what he’s saying. Do your best, but you can’t be at peace with everyone. But if it doesn’t work out, make sure it’s their fault, not yours. Right? It takes two people to reconcile.

This is where I’ve got a friend right now who’s in the midst of a divorce because she is acknowledging her own sin, her husband really is the problem, and she’s saying, “I love you, I forgive you. If you’ll meet with counselors, if you’ll submit to the authority in our church, I extend a hand to you and we can reconcile and save this marriage.” He’s saying, “No. I don’t think I did anything wrong. I don’t think I need to listen to the pastor. I don’t need to meet with a counselor. I don’t need to listen to anyone. It’s your fault.” There will be no reconciliation. Not with a man like that. Repentance takes one, forgiveness takes one, reconciliation takes two.
Forgiveness and Justice

Now, in hearing this, some of you, like me, will have strong sense of justice. You say, “But if I forgive them, where’s the justice?” Justice comes, friends, ultimately from Jesus. Either they will come to faith in Christ and you will get your justice at the cross, where Jesus’ blood was shed in their place for their sins as Jesus’ blood was shed in your place for your sin, because Lord knows we’ve hurt people too, or, if they remain unrepentant, your forgiving them does not mean that they are ultimately forgiven.

They’ve sinned against you and God, and as you forgive them, you’re leaving them to Jesus. And if they live in a state of unrepentance and they don’t come to Jesus for forgiveness, they will stand before Jesus in the end. And they will be judged and sentenced to the conscious eternal torments of hell to suffer forever for all of their sin, paying their eternal debt to the living God.

So, in forgiving someone, we are not neglecting justice. We’re leaving it to the perfect judge to enact perfect justice, either at the cross or in hell, but either way justice will be served. And we forgive in light of that.

If there is a better or additional place for this, please do move it.
Thanks.

Thoughts on Forgiveness

This is an excerpt from the final report of the Independent Committee of Inquiry, Presbyterian Church (USA), printed in September 2002. The authors are Howard Beardslee, Lois Edmund, James Evinger, Nancy Poling, Geoffrey Stearns, and Carolyn Whitfield. This excerpt is used with permission. The ICI was charged with investigating reports of sexual abuse of MKs attending American Presbyterian Congo Mission between 1945 and 1978. You can read the full report here: Final Report of the Independent Committee of Inquiry.

Why can’t they all just forgive and forget?
As victims begin the long, painful road to healing, many among their friends and family urge them to “forgive and forget.” Why is this so important? For those who served as missionaries to the Congo, it may be related to their desire to hold on to fond memories of their years on the field. It may be because they don’t want to be reminded that a colleague they respected engaged in such destructive behaviour.

There is perhaps another reason. Often we call upon people to forgive and forget because we are uncomfortable with anger, particularly if it is directed at someone we care about. Or if we ourselves feel some responsibility. Anger, however, is an appropriate response to abuse. Some women the ICI interviewed have spent a lifetime coping with eating disorders, alcoholism, low self-esteem, and depression because a person they dearly loved and trusted sexually abused them. He betrayed them, and they are furious. The missionary community did not protect them, and they are furious. Their anger is appropriate. Sexual abuse is a traumatic blow to the God-given human dignity with which every person is born. In awakening to the abuse, anger and rage are a first step toward regaining that dignity and self-esteem. Anger is an important step toward healing.

Of course, a third reason why a Christian community would admonish victimes to forgive is because it is what Jesus taught. Believers, of course, cannot discount the biblical imperative. However, Christian advocates for the abused have been engaged in biblical study related to forgiveness. Many have concluded that while Jesus taught forgiveness, he also taught that we must confront evil and commit ourselves to justice, especially when the poor and vulnerable are concerned. Careful reading reveals, too, that on the cross Jesus did not directly forgive the people who were crucifying him; he left that up to God. “Father, forgive them,” he said.

An Old Testament story can further guide our understanding of forgiveness. At the end of the narrative about Joseph and his brothers, after Jacob’s death, Joseph meets with his brothers, who sold him into slavery. When they beseech him to forgive them, he does not say he will; rather he asks them, “Am I in place of God? As for you, you meant evil against me…I will provide for you and your little ones” (Gen. 50: 19-20). He made no statement of forgiveness or of love; rather he pledged not to let them starve.

Confession, too, is an important part of the Christian tradition. Confession precedes forgiveness. How does one forgive an abuser who never admitted wrong? How does one forgive a person who is no longer living? When there is no admittance of guilt or when a face-to-face encounter is not possible, the victim may have to reach a point of acceptance rather than forgiveness. Acceptance is not resignation. It implies a state of inner peace. Whether the end is forgiveness or acceptance, the journey is painful, tedious, and long.

When victims hear their parents, “aunts,” and “uncles” tell them they should forgive and forget, they may feel re-victimized. The request tells them that their “family” does not understand the trauma they have had to live with. Those who call for forgiving and forgetting are saying that they would feel more comfortable if the wrong done was covered up or if the victim would at least pretend it was forgotten. Hearing people they love tell them to forgive and forget can also add to victims’ feelings of guilt. If they are unable to forgive, then something must be wrong with them.

Those who work in the field of abuse speak of “cheap grace,” that is forgiveness that is offered too quickly and easily. Cheap grace is forgiveness that is extended even when there has been no remorse or compensation for the harm that was done. Cheap grace is phony reconciliation that would require victims to forget what happened to them, even when the scars of abuse are daily reminders.

Marie Fortune, a noted advocate for those who have been abused, speaks of forgiveness as “the last step.” A precondition for forgiveness, she says, is justice for the victim. This inquiry is a step toward justice, but only a step.
Working through the wounds of abuse is for many a lifetime endeavor, which means that arriving at the last step, “forgiveness,” may take years. Through therapy, accompanied by family and friends, victims take the long journey toward wholeness and a renewed relationship with God. At the same time family and friends pursue the causes of justice and restitution.

The pressure exerted on victims to “forgive and forget” is healthful neither for them nor for the church. Forgiveness can not be mandated; one who has suffered cannot simply be told to forgive.
Neither is it a theological rule to be followed; it is a gift. Forgiveness is a gift that comes as a part of the healing journey.

Also, please read Forgive and Forget: Preventing Healing and Protecting Abusers.

Dearest Julie (and all others)

I attended tambo during those years, (1988-1990) and I back you up on everything you said. I was the student that took you to the director and demanded something done, and if you might remember, it happened not long after the same teacher spanked my sister until she cried, because she supposedly had talked back to her in class. Since my sister was always very strongminded, she beat her the first swats and she wouldn't cry, so she kept on beating her until she did. I still have not forgiven that teacher, and whenever I remember, I cry and hate her even more. I am really sad to read and see all these things that happened, also because I witnessed most of it. I myself had a tremendously hard time in tambo, because I did not have any friends, literally, i walked alone all the time, never got chosen for any teams, inspite been better than many, in sports.... It was the first time in my life that I was separated from my parents and I remember crying all night long the first night I was left there. I didn't know anybody, everybody looked down at me for some reason I still don't know; I never enjoyed the banquets, moonlight walks and all those activities....had no friends. At the time, there was a staff that used to put his hand up my blouse. That situation was very difficult for me because I used to feel very guilty, because I thought it was I who caused the situation. After a while it stopped, but the daughter of the staff, hardly ever spoke to me again and also I heard she hated me for trying to break up her parent's marriage...... horrendous no? I can say, yes there was extreme abuse in tambo, not only mental, but also physical. I cry through all the posts of the victims.... tambo was supposed to be safe. The few years my sister and I were there, were enough to mold us, and even now, sometimes I struggle with how to raise my 3 boys. Thank God, I always thought that physical discipline didn't work, because it is VIOLENCE, and violence only generates violence, and pain, and rancor.So I raise them with a lot of talk... and reasoning. Thank God he sent me a wonderful loving and supporting husband, he helped me heal my heart. My sister is a very hard person, with the family and specially with her kids..... I blame tambo for that. Yes we had our good times in Tambo... but the bad times tend to be more obvious. I grieve for all of you who had these terrible experiences and will be praying for you all. Juie my darling, love you!!!!

I'm a decrepit 48 year old, so my time in PNG was in the 70s and 80s, but the one thing that Tambo and PNG had in common was a Principal called Jim Finnamore. I am not sure why he left Bolivia (but would be interested in a truthful explanation), but he then ended up in PNG where he brought his brand of legalism, religo mumbo jumbo and rascism. He instituted a rule book, which was steeped in control of every facet of MK life (it is still pretty much in use in PNG and can be found on line). He had a nasty habit of singling out students he didn't like, or who dared disagree with him and making life hell for them. He had the audacity to tell my parents that the abuse he dealt out to me and sanctioned fellow MKs to engage in was part of U.S. culture and that I just had to get used to it. So I spent much of my life like thee, almost totally alone and considerably confused. He then ended up in Liberia and the Ivory Coast (and I'd be interested if anyone can shed some light on what he was up to there), before ending up in the U.K.
So Jim now sits in the NTM resthome, no doubt reflecting on his "good works", but his legacy lives on long after he left Tambo and PNG. He has singlehandedly damaged a lot of MKs and needs a thorough investigation by IHART and I for one will be illuminating his deeds for them to see.