MK forum

Thanks, Gene. I was thinking, maybe there should have been a course on rightly dividing the Word. Oh, wait, there was: Hermeneutics. However, the practical working out of rightly dividing the Word takes longer. Limited time and lots of "spoon feeding" in schools preclude really serious study. I was focused on passing tests, as many were, I think. Outside of class, holding a job.

I bring this up because, as we have seen, several factors came into play that added to the way we viewed being in fellowship and the role of leadership in NTM.

We need to be asking God, "Is this really true?" and prayerfully study the Word, believing God, through His Spirit, will reveal truth to us. Seems like an old lesson, but it is one that I continue to relearn.

Red Barren,

I am appalled at your attitude.

So tell me this: in the world we know that abides by the law, if someone commits a crime and admits it there should be no consequences? Nobody should hear about it?

What makes a pedophile or child beater in a mission organization any different than one anywhere else? Why should they be excused from consequences because they "admitted it".

A crime is a crime is a crime! It should be punished by law. Victims of abuse have such a hard time speaking out at all. When one does, it should be respected, not rejected!

The pope claims infallibility because he has been divinely appointed by God to fill a position of authority -- a "divine right" absolute leader
A committee of men claims infallibility because there are more of them than of you -- a "majority rules" form of government, a dictatorial majority, a benign dictatorship (benign since they would claim to consider your own good and wellbeing in their decrees as well as the mission's goals)

Since when does the Church make authority (the giving of orders and *ownership* of others) its primary business? As an outsider who knows nothing of NTM except what I have read here daily since the GRACE report came out, I would say NTM is obsessed with issues of authority, and power. Is this the primary model of how we are to relate to each other as Christians? Who's got more power, less power, who rules and who obeys?

As far as the "majority" ruling, being less likely to be wrong since there are more of them and they all agree, didn't Paul have to confront Peter et al. (Barnabas, "the rest of the Jews") b/c Peter and company were teaching and practicing something that was wrong?? (Galatians 2). Peter himself had literally walked with Christ for three years, and his confessions of faith (walking on the water, recognizing Jesus as the Son of God) certainly gave him "credentials" in terms of "fellowship" with God. And yet Paul was right when he rebuked him.

And how does being in fellowship (i.e. loving God, following him, and turning away from your sin) mean you can't be wrong, fallible, human? Peter was. Peer pressure ("fear") got to him. Simple as that. We're human and fallible ... even when seeking to follow God and lead others towards God.

I am deeply disturbed. I'm an MK. I grew up in the mission world. But I have to question whether NTM doesn't truly bear too much resemblance to a cult through its obsession with power structures and being obeyed. Members go through training at NTM's own school, it appears: not just new member training, but a whole Bible school -- not counting the boot camp? Members are cut off from family and their former support group by the nature of their work, working in remote locations. The organization becomes all to them. A couple of commenters talk about having been "new Christians" when they first joined NTM. New christians aren't usually sent out as missionaries.... (Am I missing something, misunderstanding? I am generalizing from a couple of comments, but is this indeed a trend?) And how long does the first missionary term last? I saw six years somewhere. I can understand the rationale for it, but talk about being absorbed deep into an organization, cut off from former ties, etc. ....

There is real danger there, and checks and balances don't seem to have been put in place. Missionaries aren't there to do the mission's work. Missions facilitate and provide oversight. But they don't own.

For the first time I have been able to get on.

Leadership? As my husband and I went through bootcamp we ran into leadership problems. A relative got extremely sick and we were asked to go help out. We could not get the same answer from the Boot camp leadership and it made it very hard on us. I grew up in NTM, my husband didn't and he could not understand all the different answers we were getting. One said that we had to pack up everything and take it with us and start training all over: one said that we could pack everything up and store it and start from where we took off: one said that if we left then we could come back and go through jungle camp and be finished BUT if we stayed at boot camp he would demand that we stay for a third semester.

We were SO torn and the more questions we asked, the more answers we got. We prayed asking God what HE wanted us to do. We knew in our hearts and the comfort from God that we would go visit the relative and help for a week and then be back at camp. With that answer, it threw the staff into a dither....they didn't know what to think. They thought that we would just agree to leave and that was that. Since no one was giving the same answer we asked if all the staff men would meet with us TOGETHER. No, they wouldn't do that either. WE NEVER COULD GET ALL OF LEADERSHIP IN THE SAME ROOM WITH US AND TALK TO US. Were we important? In God's eyes we were, in the staffs? No, we weren't. My dad being a NTM for years told us that we were in the wrong. We should have DEMANDED that the staff meet with us. No matter how much we explained to him how much we begged and pleaded with staff, they refused to meet with us. That was beyond his comprehension that the staff were so hard nosed as to not even meet with their students. I have never forgotten the hatred they showed us for not taking their decission. With a new born and In bad physical shape we were made to work long hours in camp while others were on their 2 week break. I remember one other student family 'rescuing' me behind the staffs' backs because they knew how bad I was. Leadership? Are they always right? No, they are not.

To Red Baron:

NTM saying they have sinned is not enough. Far from it. A lot of people say they have sinned, lips are easy to move. Ask any abused person if "I'm sorry" is enough. I think the answer would be over whelming. Our jails and prisons would be empty if everyone thought that a simple "I'm sorry." were enough and no consequences and punishment were called for.

LIsten Eintine this is not about who I am or who you are which you call yourself guest so I have to guess who you are? We are talking about leadership adn if we should follow them or not its not about if they ever make msitakes everybody does. I am not happy with the sexual abuse of children no one is why are you going on about it? NTM loves the Lord and is workng in heathen areas of darkness and blighted sin and they are seeing soles won to the Lord how many soles are going to be won by this site and how many soles have you won do yuo even witness for your faith? Law suets and a millin dollar fund for MKs where are they going to get that kind of money and what will it all help?

I have started my own sight for people who really love NTM and I will post their form now on.

http://ntmfansite.blogspot.com/

Red Baron.

I don't think any soles will be in heaven because I really don't think we will be wearing shoes. I don't plan on wearing any. I grew up overseas and went back. That still does not mean that leadership walk as gods.